all posts post new thread

Bodyweight Pistol squats after ACL reconstruction

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

damogari

Level 8 Valued Member
I want to explore a bodyweight exercises, for variety or when I will find myself on vacation without weights. I read NW and I am practicing OAPU and Pistols a few days in a week, right now I can do them with about 60-70% range of motion.

My left knee ACL was reconstructed and rehabilitated after it was torn in 2014. I'm feeling good about my knees, but I have to admit that ROM in left one is smaller than in right (can sit fully on right heel, but just a little on left), I will work on it. Sometimes I get some squeaky sounds in both knees. No pain at all.

My question is: are Pistols safe for knees with some history? I mean, they feels ok, but I don't know if in long term they will do more harm than good?
 
Last edited:
Hello,

@damo
I wondered the same a while ago, because I practice daily weighted pistols.

IMO, as long as you vary a lot the moves, there will be no problem. As soon as you feel pain, stop. Do not go for high volume and do not neglect stretch. Just maintain the skill on a GTG base.

As a bodyweight alternative, go for very slow deep squat and / or wall chair on one leg (iso-hold exercise).

However, if I were in your shoes, I would ask to my doctor if I can or not go for this move.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@damogari Was your repair a patellar tendon graft or a hamstring tendon graft ?

And was it a complicated repair that involved repairs to the menisci ?

I can't speak for the hamstring graft method but when I had my original ACL patellar tendon graft (which I've since ruptured) my ortho told me a patellar tendon graft ACL repair is a known risk factor for arthritis later in life, but perhaps he was being specific to my case as I'd had my meniscus removed at the same time.

& 2014 is still early days as far rehab goes for an ACL repair, it can take some people 5 years to regain full ROM.

I'd stick to two leg squats until I'd talked it through with the surgeon who did the job.
 
Thank you!

@pet' slow deep squat sound great! I will definitely work on them.
@Tarzan it was hamstring tendon graft with removing small piece of torn menisci as well.

I will try to contact with surgeon, but I'm afraid that his answer will be negative from the start because he is type of man for whom all activity beyond running or track & field is dangerous (strongly criticized playing american football / any collision sport). I know, he's not the best choice for a doctor who will do your knee, but hey, knee is working very well and I'm very satisfied with the final effect.

I think that meeting with physiotherapist who walked me through rehab is another good option.
 
Last edited:
I'd stick to two leg squats until I'd talked it through with the surgeon who did the job
+1 I had my ACL replaced in 2012. The best exercise I performed was the 2 leg, ATG BW SQ with heels on a 3/4" board. One set daily of 100 reps, pause at top and bottom.
it can take some people 5 years to regain full ROM.

In 2017, 5 years after surgery, I'm just now working on progressing back to pistols. My recommendation is to focus on the 2 legged version, spend some time getting 100 per day in one set, a and revisit the pistol later.
 
you should be okay doing pistols as long as you let pain be your guide. If it aggravates your knee, drop it. And it may, since you still lack range of motion. So getting more range back first may be needed. use exercises that strengthen your knee through a pain free range of motion. I had my right ACL reconstructed 8 years ago and I still don't quite have the range in my right knee as my left. This has prevented me from doing pistols

Regardless of the kind of graft, ACL reconstructed knees have a higher chance of arthritis. Keeping your knee strong and flexible may help combat the onset of arthritis or maintain function of the joint despite eventual arthritis. If you can get to the point where pistols help your knee do that then great!
 
Last edited:
Thank you @JonS and @rickyw!

It's good to hear opinions from people who share the same injury and experienced rehab process. This community don't stop to amaze me. Thank you for your feedback once more.

I think that I should stop working on Pistols and work on increasing ROM in knee and do standard squats instead. I will definitely take into account the 100 squats idea. If I can mix some slow reps in then it can be enough to keep my knees safe and strong.
 
+1 I had my ACL replaced in 2012. The best exercise I performed was the 2 leg, ATG BW SQ with heels on a 3/4" board. One set daily of 100 reps, pause at top and bottom.

@JonS why heels on a 3/4" board? What is the difference between normaln squats with heels on flat surface?
 
Hello,

@damogari
If one lacks a little of ankle flexibility, when you are in the down phase of a squat (pistol or standard (bdw or weighted)) one tends to separte the heels from the ground. Thus, there is a loss of balance. Plus, one tends to bend the back or putting the back forward. The latter is not good of lumbar and upper back.

Using heels permits to maintain balance if one has not enough ankle flexibility.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
@JonS why heels on a 3/4" board? What is the difference between normaln squats with heels on flat surface?

@pet' while those are perhaps reasons to use the board, they did not apply in my case.

@damogari to focus on the Quad/VMO, at the advice of the Chief. After surgery, my VMO had atrophied. Here is the original thread that sparked the journey.

http://www.strongfirst.com/topic/pavels-lunges-in-mm/

Bodyweight Legs Everyday for Pavel

BW Legs Feedback & Question for Pavel/SFG

@Steve Freides made a great observation at the end of the last post, advice I gladly took. Good luck!
 
I will try to contact with surgeon, but I'm afraid that his answer will be negative from the start because he is type of man for whom all activity beyond running or track & field is dangerous (strongly criticized playing american football / any collision sport). I know, he's not the best choice for a doctor who will do your knee, but hey, knee is working very well and I'm very satisfied with the final effect.

His opinions are most likely based on statistics and his own personal experience with ACL repair patients needing revisions after re-injuring the ACL he's repaired for them.

I can see what you mean though, some ortho's have a fairly narrow range of what they consider acceptable sports for their patients and often don't have the time to get into a deep meaningful conversation with a patient about things that don't interest them. They have bigger fish to fry, so some of the more mundane issues simply don't interest them.

Don't rush the progressions and build your strength slowly and you should be OK. One thing that helped me after my ACL repair was a mirror. I used it for many months post op to study my own movement patterns. When moving back to partial one leg squats (on the leg that's had the surgery) some people develop a lateral or medial lean sometimes with a twist as a compensating mechanism for a torn ACL and often keep that habit after the repair even though it's no longer needed.

Those type of leaning or twisting habits can transfer excess loading to ankles and hips etc so you really want to work on getting the best movement patterns back as soon as you can bear weight on one leg before you get into heavy full range work like pistols. Some people do it naturally themselves but other people need a proprioceptive tune up so to speak.

Good luck with it and let us all know how it goes.
 
I never had serious knee injuries, but some minor ones. I can do 8-10 pistols in a set, but it's a very technical exercise and it's hard to maintain good form, especially if you're tired or are pushing your limits. If the technique is not strict, even a tiny error can irritate my knees, not really painful, but I'm somewhat paranoid about potential injuries. My decision was to use pistols not as strength exercise, but as a balance/flexibility skill, so I don't do them often, use no weights and don't do many reps. I treat single leg deadlits the same way.
What I like to do now are Bulgarian Split Squats. It's similar to a pistol, but without the balancing part it's easier technically. I can go heavy with them and my knees were never aching after them. What I like about them is that you can use a farmer carry grip in case your lower back or abs are tired.
 
This topic is a real eye opener for me.

While pursuing weights I forgot a little about health. I really like StrongFirst's mindset, strength before everything else, but it takes me some time to realize that strength shouldn't come at a cost of health. On the other side I believe that you are not truly healthy person if you don't have strength. These qualities are complementary.

I had a lot of luck to stumble upon kettlebells, and StrongFirst in result. Before I joined this community strength was for me just a number of plates on the barbell. Now it's also mobility, stability, flexibility, balance, technique and power. Thank you once more for showing me that to be strong is not only to lift more, it's also to be a better, healthier person.

I will definitely focus on air squats and go back to basics with me knees. A 100 air squats daily is reasonable goal, do I have to do it only with heels elevated? I don't feel that I have a lack of ankle flexiblity.
If I eventually progress to 100 squats daily I want to give Lyubutsu (50 air squats, 30 w/bar, 30 bar+weight 3 times per week) a shot. I don't have access to barbell, do you think that I can change bar squats to goblet/double kb front squats?
 
do I have to do it only with heels elevated? I don't feel that I have a lack of ankle flexiblity.

Currently, I rotate between the board and no board. I have plenty of ankle flexibility, so I used the board to focus on the Quad, and that method paid the highest dividends in my case. YMMV, but once you get to 100 stay there a couple of months before moving on to allow for adaptation. I did them right after the TGUs at the end of my S&S session, 4-5 times per week, and it worked well. Another option that works well is at the end of the AM super joints routine, if time is a factor.

. I don't have access to barbell, do you think that I can change bar squats to goblet/double kb front squats

I dont have much experience with high rep kb fsq or goblets. May be worth trying, but I don't recommend rushing to this point.
 
Thanks, I will definitely do not rush to high rep weighted squats. Btw @pet' this Hackenschmidt squat looks cool! Definitely have to try it.

@JonS how did you progresssed to 100 reps in one set? I should do only one set and add reps until 100 or do multiple sets, for example 5x20, and make them bigger until 1x100?
 
how did you progresssed to 100 reps in one set? I should do only one set and add reps until 100 or do multiple sets, for example 5x20, and make them bigger until 1x100?

I wasn't worried about any set/rep scheme, I just started with 3x30, then slowly added to the first set. Once the first set was over 50, I cut the extra sets and worked on slowly adding reps. Really, just go squat in the manner that Pavel T. describes in one of the threads I posted and enjoy. 2L BW SQs are not difficult and you will adapt quickly.
 
This topic is a real eye opener for me.

While pursuing weights I forgot a little about health. I really like StrongFirst's mindset, strength before everything else, but it takes me some time to realize that strength shouldn't come at a cost of health.
On this point we are all in agreement. It's Strong First if you are healthy and move normally - if you don't meet those requirements, take care of them first, and if you do meet those requirements, be sure your strength training doesn't worsen your health or your normal movement patterns.

-S-
 
To echo what everyone touched on...safety first.. no need to chase an exercise that your body will suffer from rather than reward you. Work on your ankle mobility, have an FMS screening. If you get the green light, here are some alternatives that I have found have great carryover to the pistol - the single leg Deadlift and the narrow squat.
In my pistol training, my QL would get aggravated easily. I train a young athlete with ACL injury who has been cleared by her doctor. In both cases, single leg DL has worked with no pain. Concentrate on driving front foot through the floor (like with your pistol). Narrow squats are done with your feet together and a bell held by the horns (this is how I hold the bell for my pistols). The squat pattern of the narrow squat mimics the depth of the pistol but with two leg stability.
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom