Barbell PL vs OL Training and What Each Can Learn from the Other

[MikeTheBear]

This video is 30 minutes but I found it really good and informative. Much respect for Chad Wesley Smith. Although he is a powerlifter, he basically debunks the whole "Olympic lifters should just get really strong and not train the lifts so much."

 

[Anna C]

Good video, thanks. I learned some things. I think it would be even better if they started out with a simple definition of "weightlifting" and "powerlifting", haha. For those of us who train with a barbell, but are only vaguely aware of the competitive sports.

Weightlifting Versus Powerlifting | T Nation: "Weightlifting includes the snatch and the clean and jerk (performed as one movement) while powerlifting involves the squat, deadlift, and bench press."

It still seems very odd to me that CrossFit starts people off with weightlifting. Seems like this should come after a year or two of practicing basic powerlifting. Or better yet, kettlebells.

 

[MikeTheBear]

It still seems very odd to me that CrossFit starts people off with weightlifting. Seems like this should come after a year or two of practicing basic powerlifting. Or better yet, kettlebells.

Don't get me started!

Too late.

I don't have a problem with Crossfit teaching the Olympic lifts on day one. The sooner the learning process is started the more practice the trainee can receive. I also don't think that doing high rep Olympic lifting will create a rift in the space-time continuum that may cause the lifter to be transported into a parallel universe, as some seem to think. But, I have some simple rules:

If a person is learning the Olympic lifts, DO NOT make them do high reps on the lifts.
Once a person has developed decent technique on the lifts, then that person needs to decide on some goals. If the person wants to get better at the lifts and possibly compete, stick to lower reps. If the person wants to get better at Crossfit and possibly compete in the Crossfit games, then they will need to add high rep OL since that is part of the sport of Crossfit (for now I won't debate whether Crossfit should be it's own sport).

I have a simple rule about the role of OL and KBs: the O lifts are for developing maximum power and strength; KBs are for high reps to develop strength endurance and power endurance. Crossfit would be a lot better if it followed this simple rule.

OL and KBs are a good example of what Pavel calls "same but different." There have actually been some studies that show a transfer of skills from KB to OL. I would agree, especially if you examine some of the elements of GS technique. I personally still do the O lifts once in a while to supplement my KB training.

Kettlebells: All the fun of Olympic weightlifting without the difficult technique.

 

[Anna C]

I don't have a problem with Crossfit teaching the Olympic lifts on day one. The sooner the learning process is started the more practice the trainee can receive.

OK, maybe if you start with a fit person. But there are just SO MANY PEOPLE who should NOT be throwing any sort of weight overhead (even an empty barbell) until they do quite a bit of preparation and work to be ready to do it safely. But, everyone can do some sort of deadlift and some sort of squat on Day 1.

Kettlebells: All the fun of Olympic weightlifting without the difficult technique.

I agree! But I would say there is still quite a lot of technique to learn and practice with kettlebell snatch and/or C&J.

 

[Geoduck]

This is a great video. It’s the kind of anti broscience approach I want to see more around the internet.

As for Crossfit putting people into Olympic lifts early on. That seems insane to me. Note that I’m a complete lifting noob, but in my opinion Squat/Deadlift/Bench/OHP is the big four in general lifting for a reason. They teach you raw strength, refined technique, balance, confidence. I personally won’t even consider Olympic lifts until I’m very confident and experienced with the big 4. It seems like jumping into the deep end of the pool right as you start learning to swim.

 

[Nate]

There are prerequisites for everything. Not everyone is ready for Olys and there are also people who have no business with a deadlift or barbell back squat. Each person must advance from where they are.

 

[Anna C]

There are prerequisites for everything. Not everyone is ready for Olys and there are also people who have no business with a deadlift or barbell back squat. Each person must advance from where they are.

I agree, but there are regressions for everything. Everyone lifts things -- kids, groceries, firelogs, suitcases.... Therefore, everyone deadlifts. Kettlebell deadlifts are such a great place to start in teaching the fundamentals of hinging, bracing, tension, and wedging. Then we move on from there.

 

[Nate]

I agree, but there are regressions for everything. Everyone lifts things -- kids, groceries, firelogs, suitcases.... Therefore, everyone deadlifts. Kettlebell deadlifts are such a great place to start in teaching the fundamentals of hinging, bracing, tension, and wedging. Then we move on from there.

I think we are making the same point. I was trying to express that the power lifts are not step 1 for everyone.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

OL and KBs are a good example of what Pavel calls "same but different." There have actually been some studies that show a transfer of skills from KB to OL. I would agree, especially if you examine some of the elements of GS technique. I personally still do the O lifts once in a while to supplement my KB training.

Wasn't it you who wrote that the KB lifts messed up his timing for the Oly lifts? It could have been @Geoff Chafe though.