Keep strengthening your DF.. maybe add some ab wheel rollouts too...
You're on the right path
You're on the right path
Bodyweight Planche + Front lever training
- Thread starter Philippe Geoffrion
- Start date
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Great post, as usual @pet'
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Time is on our side!
Your dragon flag looks great, btw @Steve Freides.
I always knew this move was tough but also discovering how difficult it is for me has enlightened me to where I have room to improve my FL and planche training.
Thanks, again!
I’ll post some updates over time.
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Thanks @Mark Limbaga.
Currently focusing on DF because I train in the parks with minimal equipment but I do also perform the hand walkouts a la Naked Warrior.
bluejeff
Level 7 Valued Member
Another thing popped into my head:
Simonster was the first guy I saw use the term “mechanical advantage” for calisthenics skills. Basically, you do a harder variation on the eccentric and an easier one on the concentric.
I haven’t done a dragon flag in a while, but when I did, this was how I got them. I started by doing tuck DFs and straddle or single leg tuck. Then I did the mechanical advantage versions. I would lower using a full DF (legs all the way straight) and then raise by tucking one knee in. Then I’d just alternate which knee was tucked.
You can do the same thing for front lever raises, as well as planche push-up variations (once you have a solid tuck planche and straddle bent arm planche).
Front lever is pretty much just like the DF exercise I outlined above. Planche push-ups (while down the road a ways…) would involve starting in a tuck planche, lowering to a bent arm straddle planche, and pushing back up to the tuck.
If you’re methodical and creative you can probably make up your own MA exercises this way too.
Here’s a few IG links
Simonster was the first guy I saw use the term “mechanical advantage” for calisthenics skills. Basically, you do a harder variation on the eccentric and an easier one on the concentric.
I haven’t done a dragon flag in a while, but when I did, this was how I got them. I started by doing tuck DFs and straddle or single leg tuck. Then I did the mechanical advantage versions. I would lower using a full DF (legs all the way straight) and then raise by tucking one knee in. Then I’d just alternate which knee was tucked.
You can do the same thing for front lever raises, as well as planche push-up variations (once you have a solid tuck planche and straddle bent arm planche).
Front lever is pretty much just like the DF exercise I outlined above. Planche push-ups (while down the road a ways…) would involve starting in a tuck planche, lowering to a bent arm straddle planche, and pushing back up to the tuck.
If you’re methodical and creative you can probably make up your own MA exercises this way too.
Here’s a few IG links
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Actually, yes I’ve found lowering from a tuck to a straddle to be very helpful…and actually possible.
Picked up a band today. Did some decent advanced tucks. Yes, simonster as phenomenal and indeed, I was suffering from long ticks to moving to advanced and barely having a single second here.
Here’s a band assisted advanced tuck (at least, trying to be advanced)
February 2, 2023
youtube.com
The bent ar position definitely improves leverage…
Alas, there are many tools for me now to attack the planche.
Also, I’ve discarded the FL session in favor of Drafon Flags and OAC, which I think cover most of the necessary strength for now. I think the dragon flag, upon reaching mastery, will have great carryover to the FL which makes me wonder,
@Steve Freides …with your dragon flag strength, have you attempted a Front Lever? From what I imagine, your midsection strength is at the level.
I don't feel strong enough in my arms and chest for a front lever on the rings - I do them, but at an angle, feet closer to the ceiling than parallel, but body straight.
-S-
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello @Philippe Geoffrion
If you are able to do a DF from the ground, and slowly lift yourself up (with a pause at 10cm height) then you will have enough core strength.
With FL, the limiting factors are :
- Upper back strength (lats, scapular chain, traps)
- Straight arm strength (German hang can be especially helpful for FL)
To create upper body tension (especially upper back), gripping the bar as tightly as you can is important. Trying to 'bend' the bar will also help. That's why the ring version is harder by the way, because the rings will turn. However, they tend to be more joints friendly.
Kind regards,
Pet'
If you are able to do a DF from the ground, and slowly lift yourself up (with a pause at 10cm height) then you will have enough core strength.
With FL, the limiting factors are :
- Upper back strength (lats, scapular chain, traps)
- Straight arm strength (German hang can be especially helpful for FL)
To create upper body tension (especially upper back), gripping the bar as tightly as you can is important. Trying to 'bend' the bar will also help. That's why the ring version is harder by the way, because the rings will turn. However, they tend to be more joints friendly.
Kind regards,
Pet'
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Some updates on planche and dragon flags.
As mentioned, I’ve subbed dragon flag training out for Front Lever practice, concluding that training the One Arm chin-up and FL simultaneously to be resundant, and that my area of lack in FL strength is in my torso stiffness abilities.
Planche work is consistent; progress slow. However, here are some recent insights and progress markers.
Dragon Flag measures
I’ve found the closest way for me to train the bottom of the flag, read the hardest portion, is with a single leg tucked. With a straddle, I find it much harder to maintain flute tension and with the full extended lever, I can barely reach 45 degrees. Here is the single leg tuck.
One Arm Chinup
This move is also incredibly difficult from the bottom position. I’ve found the finger assist useful…but it neglects what to do with the other arm during a true OAC. This is an issue I need to address, as the non working arm adds dead weight be Lao Asiata the body from rotating.
Alas, I’ve managed a “cheater rep” ie, starting the pull from a partial ROM (ie not a des hang) with a little push aid from the feet.
I’ve also found that placing the non working arm on the shoulder to be a useful assist exercise.
For this rep, I use my non working hand by squeezing my torso with it to alleviate the des weight and also help my body maintain tension.
youtube.com
Nonetheless, my shoulder has trouble anchoring in the bottom. Perhaps single arm hangs practicing retraction will help here.
Planche
For the planche, I’ve discovered a few things. With my short torso, hollow position is very difficult to maintain. My back wants to arch hard especially when bringing the legs back. This is where Frog stands may come in handy for easier days…although, since the legs are further back than a tuck, it’s still quite difficult.
On high bars, getting the hips up represents a challenge as seen here…
youtube.com
Likewise, my head ends up higher than my hips when a tuck planche push-up is attempted. My torso gives in to gain better leverage.
youtube.com
A lower set of bars helps a little, but my propensity to fall forward hinders a long hold.
youtube.com
Alas, the floor it is easier to get into a tuck planche, the wrist position is easier but my long legs are so close to the ground, it’s difficult. Parallelettes may be the answer.
Anyways, here we are.
As mentioned, I’ve subbed dragon flag training out for Front Lever practice, concluding that training the One Arm chin-up and FL simultaneously to be resundant, and that my area of lack in FL strength is in my torso stiffness abilities.
Planche work is consistent; progress slow. However, here are some recent insights and progress markers.
Dragon Flag measures
I’ve found the closest way for me to train the bottom of the flag, read the hardest portion, is with a single leg tucked. With a straddle, I find it much harder to maintain flute tension and with the full extended lever, I can barely reach 45 degrees. Here is the single leg tuck.
One Arm Chinup
This move is also incredibly difficult from the bottom position. I’ve found the finger assist useful…but it neglects what to do with the other arm during a true OAC. This is an issue I need to address, as the non working arm adds dead weight be Lao Asiata the body from rotating.
Alas, I’ve managed a “cheater rep” ie, starting the pull from a partial ROM (ie not a des hang) with a little push aid from the feet.
I’ve also found that placing the non working arm on the shoulder to be a useful assist exercise.
For this rep, I use my non working hand by squeezing my torso with it to alleviate the des weight and also help my body maintain tension.
February 14, 2023
youtube.com
Nonetheless, my shoulder has trouble anchoring in the bottom. Perhaps single arm hangs practicing retraction will help here.
Planche
For the planche, I’ve discovered a few things. With my short torso, hollow position is very difficult to maintain. My back wants to arch hard especially when bringing the legs back. This is where Frog stands may come in handy for easier days…although, since the legs are further back than a tuck, it’s still quite difficult.
On high bars, getting the hips up represents a challenge as seen here…
February 14, 2023
youtube.com
Likewise, my head ends up higher than my hips when a tuck planche push-up is attempted. My torso gives in to gain better leverage.
February 14, 2023
youtube.com
A lower set of bars helps a little, but my propensity to fall forward hinders a long hold.
February 14, 2023
youtube.com
Alas, the floor it is easier to get into a tuck planche, the wrist position is easier but my long legs are so close to the ground, it’s difficult. Parallelettes may be the answer.
Anyways, here we are.
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
Planche/DF/FL updates
Not sure if my last message came through but allez-y. Some recent adnacements to report on. Slowly but surely! Small milestones are a lot on this journey, a little reminder that we are indeed improving so I present the aforementioned on this long journey.
For planche training, I recently was able to get my legs around my knees on the parallel bars for a quick moment.
youtube.com
With dragon flags, I’m getting lower, practicing one leg ticks on certain days.
youtube.com
For the front lever, did a random test and while hardly a hold or proper leg position, am pleased to find my legs are getting closer to straight but alas, they’re about on par with my dragon flag angle hence, how I know DF are a good marker.
youtube.com
That’s all for now!
Not sure if my last message came through but allez-y. Some recent adnacements to report on. Slowly but surely! Small milestones are a lot on this journey, a little reminder that we are indeed improving so I present the aforementioned on this long journey.
For planche training, I recently was able to get my legs around my knees on the parallel bars for a quick moment.
February 22, 2023
youtube.com
With dragon flags, I’m getting lower, practicing one leg ticks on certain days.
February 22, 2023
youtube.com
For the front lever, did a random test and while hardly a hold or proper leg position, am pleased to find my legs are getting closer to straight but alas, they’re about on par with my dragon flag angle hence, how I know DF are a good marker.
February 22, 2023
youtube.com
That’s all for now!