all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Popped a rib out during Kettlebell Swing

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Eddie

Eddie

First Post
Hi all,

I injured myself doing the Simple programme and couldn't find a post about a similar injury anywhere online.

A little about me:
  • 27, M, 5'10", 190lbs, ~15% body fat
  • I've been doing martial arts and weight training since I was 16, currently doing MMA 3-5/week, and weight train 1-2x/week. I stretch after most MMA sessions.
  • I snapped the lower part of my right fibula (clean break) playing rugby in 2008 and mobility in my right ankle is still limited
Last year, I started doing my 10x10 with a 50lbs kettlebell. I progressed over a couple months, reducing rest periods and number of sets until I could 100 swings without pausing. I then moved on to an 80lbs kettlebell. After a couple weeks, on my 6th or 7th set, I felt something wrong and froze mid air on the upswing, fell forward, putting the kettlebell down and falling on my bed. It was agony to move. After several hours I decided to go to the hospital, they took X-rays, nothing seemed wrong, and they gave me strong pain killers. I went to my chiropractor (who is also an athlete and follower of Pavel), who diagnosed the popped out rib. I believe it was one of the ribs attached to the spine at somewhere around T6 to T9 (inclusive).

Eventually it healed. Several weeks after the incident I went back to the 80lbs kettlebell. On my second session the same thing happened, this time on the other side. Didn't go to the hospital this time, went back to the chiro, he massaged it back and I let it heal.

I haven't touched a kettlebell since, but would love to get back to training with it...safely. Anyone have an idea of what I could be doing to get injured like this?

All the best,
eddie
 
Eddie
Did your Chiro have any recommendations or are they familiar with the SFMA?
"rehab" or otherwise?

A detailed history of medical, injury and training (surgeries, car accidents, falls etc...)
Video of your swing (NOT until cleared to do so)

Take some time away from the swing and let things heal up and when you are ready find an FMS pro to screen you and see if there is a movement issue
 
I had that happen but I am pretty sure mine was from Austrailian Pull Ups. Had to go to my Doc (a D.O.) and he popped it back in.

What I would guess is that you are not packing the shoulders enough and letting the kettlebell pull you, but take @Brett Jones advice and get a screen.
 
How exactly does a rib "pop out" but not show up on an x-ray? I've heard of dislocated ribs and torn rib cartilage. Those injuries take time to heal.
 
I had something similar but it was called a subluxed rib, and it happened right where Eddie's did, in the thoracic region on my spine. I'm not sure how I did it exactly though I may have done it while awkwardly starting a lawn mower (pull start). I'm loose jointed and might be more prone to something like that than others, but I thought it was just a painful muscle knot in my back so I left it alone until it woke me up in the middle of the night in a lot of pain. This was quite a while after I originally noticed the "knot", so I figured something must have gotten worse.

Found a good PT at work and she said my symptoms sound like a subluxed rib. Basically, the rib gets out of alignment right where it connects to your spine and refuses to go back on its own. A quick check by her confirmed it and she was able to pop it back in. Problem was that by me leaving it alone for a while, the muscles got used to it being out and she said I'd be more prone than normal to doing it again. She gave me an exercise program that consisted of a lot of horizontal pulls to activate my rhomboids and lats. I would agree with Mike Moran because packing the shoulders activates all of those upper back pulling muscles and that correlates with what my PT said to do as maintenance and recovery. Tensing the lats protects the upper back.
 
I have this also. What follows is my story and my understanding, and is _not_ intended to be medical advice to the original poster or anyone else.

This happened to me as a result of coughing while recovering from pneumonia in 2001.

(I remain convinced that I came down with pneumonia as a result of taking low-dose, inhaled corticosteroids as prescribed by my general practitioner doctor, but that's another subject entirely, and I would be remiss in my obligations if I didn't mention that these drugs help many, many people. NB: these were not weight-lifting, anabolic steroids - they have rather the opposite effect. But pneumonia is one of the listed possible side-effects, and I got it two years in a row in the middle of the winter when I was taking these drugs, and as soon as I stopped taking them, I also stopped getting pneumonia as an annual Christmas present.)

Back to the rib story - my doctor said, based on an examination, that he was convinced I'd broken a rib. At the time, I was having a chest x-ray every week, anyway (it took 10 weeks to clear), and he expected to find his conclusion confirmed by the x-ray, but the broken rib never appeared. The doctor said it was possible I'd cracked but not completely broken it and that might explain why it couldn't be seen on the x-ray. Regardless, he said, the treatment was the same - get it to a place where it didn't hurt and do your best to keep it there until it healed, so that's what I did. I wore a rather corset-like, wrap-around rib brace and it gradually got better. After a few days of wearing the brace 24/7, I switched to wearing it only at night, and eventually to not wearing it at all after a few weeks.

Upon a visit with my back specialist doctor some time after this incident, he said what I probably had was a sub-lux'ed rib as has been described by a couple of other people above in this thread. He said he's also experienced this once in his life.

Mine has never become completely normal again, and my understanding it that it never will be unless I have surgery and maybe not even then, and since my symptoms are almost 100% avoidable through exercise and activity selection, there is no reason for me to even think about the surgery. It's connective tissue that's gotten weakened, and the best thing I have found is simply train my strength and mobility in ways that help me without aggravating this condition.

IOW, if it hurts there, I don't do it. This necessarily limits some of the things I can do, and I don't know that my particular list of do's and don'ts will be relevant to another person, and this hasn't stopped me working to improve my t-spine mobility overall because some things feel just fine.

Hope the story is helpful and, again, please remember it's my personal story and not intended as medical advice. The standard caveat applies here - if it hurts, see your doctor, which is what I did.

-S-
 
THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE - but it sounds to me like a rib cartilage strain. I have had a few, in the past, particularly when trying unfamilar moves. Last time was with dragon flags. They can be quite painful and rest (or doing things which don't aggravate) is the only option. May take up to 4 weeks to clear up completely.

As above, I would get it checked just in case there is a break.
 
Ah, sorry, I didn't read; this is historical. The best advice would be t o get used to the move with a lighter bell. If that means dropping to 16kg for swings, so be it.
 
First off, thank you so much everyone for your quick responses! Really appreciate it.

@Brett Jones : I mentioned SFMA to my Chiro, he mentioned I would pass the tests easily. I work on my shoulder, hip, and groin mobility a few times a week.

Training injuries (pictures attached):
- Broke my right thumb in ~1999 (age 9), healed by itself
- Broke my right clavicle in ~2006 (age 16), healed by itself with a sling (after doctor visit)
- Broke my right tibia in March 2008 (age 19), have ~ 4 inches of titanium and 4 screws in it
- Injured my lower back ~2014 during Tough Mudder lifting a log while running up hill, disc very slightly out of place, chiro treatment made pain going away, mostly by doing 50 upward facing dog poses a day
- Injured my right knee ~2015 squatting 275lbs 5x5, chiro fixed it by using Graston technique

Kettlebell swing performed:

IMG_2933.jpg
IMG_2934.jpg
10398916_26491320692_1730_n.jpg
 
Eddie
I'll sound like a jerk for moment but with all due respect to your Chiro the only way to know if you would "pass" all of the tests is to go through the SFMA.
Believe me I've talked myself into many things and having a good objective screen to hold myself to has been a game changer.

Your swing looks like it is coming mainly from your lower back - focus on finishing standing tall (you get shorter by leaning back and tucking your chin to your chest)
and I would like to see your KB deadlift.
 
MikeTheBear said:
How exactly does a rib "pop out" but not show up on an x-ray? I've heard of dislocated ribs and torn rib cartilage. Those injuries take time to heal.
Click to expand...

Ribs rarely "pop out". This is slang, but technically it is a false statement perpetuated through the joint manipulation community (principally chiros, but PTs also). The medical definition of subluxation is essentially a partial dislocation-aka you injured a joint in a way that a motion segment or joint was forced beyond its normal anatomical limits for a moment, which tears ligaments and/or muscles. Usually a sprain/strain is the result of a subluxation. Although relatively rare, this can happen to ribs, usually the result of significant trauma, like a car accident, etc, where the rib cage is impacted, or violently sidebent and or rotated. For this kind or rib injury, high velocity low amplitude manipulation is contra indicated, as the rib is already hypermobile. True dislocations and subluxation do take time to heal.

Subluxation has another definition in most chiropractic circles: a slight vertebral or joint misalignment. Apparently some PTs are using this term in the same fashion. I don't much care for it being used this way as it confuses the rest of the medical community. The more appropriate term is somatic dysfunction. This refers to a lack of motion at a joint. The joint has become restricted in its motion in one or more directions, leading to hypertonic myofascia, pain etc. Ironically, people refer to this joint as a joint that is "popped out" or "subluxated", when in fact, the joint is moving less, and is within its regular anatomic limits (it does not show up on an xray, good question Mike). When your practitioners manipulate your spine, they aren't popping anything back in, they are merely hitting the neurological reset button on a poorly moving motion segment, by placing motion into a hypomobile joint, which leads to increased motion and a more normalized myofascial tone, thus decreasing pain. Ribs become restricted in their motion through things like not moving enough (desk jockey), poor posture, poor movement patterns, etc. Many times, IMO, the rib first becomes restricted and then the individual aggravates it by trying to move it more than it will allow under its current circumstances, which leads to inflammation and pain. Spasm of the intercostals, levator costorum, and iliocostals, can be very intense and lead one to think their ribs are broken.

I offer the above as food for thought only. In all cases, a thorough work up and examination by a competent practitioner are necessary to establish an appropriate diagnosis and treatment plan.
 
Last edited:
You don't sound like a jerk at all, really appreciate your and everyone else's help. I'll look into local practitioners. If you have a recommendation for someone in the Boston area, would really appreciate it.

Below is my KB deadlift and a hopefully improved KB swing.



 
Eddie, in addition to all the good advice above, I'd recommend you settle in for the long haul. Getting proper form is very important, as your rib will attest. It's good to proceed diligently, but also realize that development in the swing can occur steadily over time, and you'd probably benefit a whole lot from the S&S program over the long term. As it says in the book, pay attention to each rep, but also use a proper weight and allow time for the development that will give you the ultimate benefits.
 
@Eddie, on the first two reps of your kettlebell deadlift, you used your hips more - the camera angle shows they're further down and back. You also touched the bell down lightly between those two reps, something you don't have to do all the time but it helped you in this case. I recommend you also come _up_ slower and under complete control - it will change the quality of the movement.

-S-
 
As someone who has a rib or two that "pop out" once in awhile I second all the advice on the thread here. I suspect the SFMA will expose several things
and I have a private bet in my head as to what it is.

You are likely unpacking your shoulder but are unaware. You might want to try some warm ups with a very light kettlebell and do one armed swings into the
bottoms up position to lock in the grip/lat/hip connection on the side that keeps "popping out".
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom