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Nutrition Post-Lifting Anabolic Window

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I couldn't agree more.

All I am saying is that all theories are not guesses... educated or otherwise. They are the results of rigorous empirical evidence, and mathematical proof...

But I digress, and apologize for getting off the topic of the metabolic window, and into the realm of physics.

(Although it's all physics in the end...:))
 
An interesting topic in the world of the "bad carb" that we live in today.

Any of you who remember when Champion Nutrition developed Carboplex may recall all of the research that was done in developing that product.

IF I recall correctly much of that research found that carbs were just as important after training as before training. In developing Carboplex they found that a quick acting carbohydrate drink was useful in transporting the right nutrients to the recovering muscles.

I also seem to recall that it was supposed to be used within 30 minutes of your training.

Later Carboplex fell out of favor. I believe because it was nothing more than a simple sugar and those who used it to carb load got the same effect as sugar resulting in the sugar rush and then crash.

But in regard to an anabolic window let me throw this at the group. If there is a window where nutrients need to be replenished within a certain time post training then couldn't that theory also be used to burn fat?

Example; a trainee does their strength/power training first. In theory burning up their glucose levels. Then after this training the trainee does their aerobic training. Since they have burned up their glucose levels then fat will become their source of energy for the aerobic training and they will reduce their adipose fat levels in dramatic fashion.

That of course isn't what happens. Glucose levels in all but some one who is at starvation level is replenished so quickly that the trainee will burn both glucose and fat during their aerobic session. You would have to be at starvation level for your body to become catabolic after training.

This is what bodybuilders worry about while cutting. We are speaking of a very small percentage of the population who are trying to drop their body fat levels to what would be regarded as unhealthy levels by most of the population. This is done after consuming what would be considered huge daily calorie rations to build muscle and then cutting that ration dramatically. We are speaking of individuals who have extremely large muscle mass which requires more calories than the average and then cutting that calorie requirement in nearly half or more.

I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of the group has to say.
 
An interesting topic in the world of the "bad carb" that we live in today.

Any of you who remember when Champion Nutrition developed Carboplex may recall all of the research that was done in developing that product.

IF I recall correctly much of that research found that carbs were just as important after training as before training. In developing Carboplex they found that a quick acting carbohydrate drink was useful in transporting the right nutrients to the recovering muscles.

I also seem to recall that it was supposed to be used within 30 minutes of your training.

Later Carboplex fell out of favor. I believe because it was nothing more than a simple sugar and those who used it to carb load got the same effect as sugar resulting in the sugar rush and then crash.

But in regard to an anabolic window let me throw this at the group. If there is a window where nutrients need to be replenished within a certain time post training then couldn't that theory also be used to burn fat?

Example; a trainee does their strength/power training first. In theory burning up their glucose levels. Then after this training the trainee does their aerobic training. Since they have burned up their glucose levels then fat will become their source of energy for the aerobic training and they will reduce their adipose fat levels in dramatic fashion.

That of course isn't what happens. Glucose levels in all but some one who is at starvation level is replenished so quickly that the trainee will burn both glucose and fat during their aerobic session. You would have to be at starvation level for your body to become catabolic after training.

This is what bodybuilders worry about while cutting. We are speaking of a very small percentage of the population who are trying to drop their body fat levels to what would be regarded as unhealthy levels by most of the population. This is done after consuming what would be considered huge daily calorie rations to build muscle and then cutting that ration dramatically. We are speaking of individuals who have extremely large muscle mass which requires more calories than the average and then cutting that calorie requirement in nearly half or more.

I'd be interested in hearing what the rest of the group has to say.

Isn't this part of the theory behind carb depletion for cutting?
Some of this goes back to the research I came across stating that after exercise-induced drop in glucose stores, the insulin response to carb ingestion is muted - you keep burning fat during recovery and the glucose is shunted directly to muscle.

Personally I notice it when I have an orange or similar fruit about 30 minutes before training. Is nit a huge difference but it feels like my engine heats up faster. Days when I'm dragging it can take 5-10 minutes before I come around and really start firing on all cylinders.
 
Isn't this part of the theory behind carb depletion for cutting?
Some of this goes back to the research I came across stating that after exercise-induced drop in glucose stores, the insulin response to carb ingestion is muted - you keep burning fat during recovery and the glucose is shunted directly to muscle.

Personally I notice it when I have an orange or similar fruit about 30 minutes before training. Is nit a huge difference but it feels like my engine heats up faster. Days when I'm dragging it can take 5-10 minutes before I come around and really start firing on all cylinders.

I really don't have the knowledge to say Martin. Is it carb depletion or is it calorie depletion? Would either produce a drop in glucose stores which would produce a burning of fat? Also as soon as there is a nutrient doesn't the muscle glycogen get replaced first?
 
I really don't have the knowledge to say Martin. Is it carb depletion or is it calorie depletion? Would either produce a drop in glucose stores which would produce a burning of fat? Also as soon as there is a nutrient doesn't the muscle glycogen get replaced first?


As long as stores are low it does, but the body will mobilize glycogen stores post wokout as well, so if you delay the post workout carbs some of it will circulate and reduce fat burning IIRC.
Carb depletion is more about shrinking water stores that accompany the glucose, but also has the effect of increasing % fat contribution to resting energy usage.
 
I've never liked this theory, and think the whole post-workout window sits in the "it seems to work" in trained athletes. This is why I don't like this theory. As mentioned above (and there's so much good already stated on this thread that I may just be reiterating things), if you're eating your normal macros, assuming you're at a slight caloric surplus for bulking, you won't need to refuel in that short "window." Most of us are not training for the Olympics or even doing 2-a-days, so that window becomes less important if you're eating normally. If you couple the post workout window with either a keto diet or fasted workouts, it's even less critical as you'll likely have plenty of circulating leucine to protect muscle growth et al.

Now I wouldn't be surprised if the carb side of this equation makes a difference, doing a post workout carb load. Even in the keto community, targeted keto suggests having a small carb bolus post workout, but we're talking 10-15g of quick carbs, which is still much less than @Steve Freides' Christmas cookies!!

The other bonus I remember coming across was the Sprint 8/Peak 8 author, Phil Campbell. He advocated his 30/90s HIIT program with a dietary program that suggested limiting the carbs for 2.5 hours after 8 sets of the 30/90. The reason being is it's a HUGE push for growth hormone. Now if you're 16-30 years old, probably not a big deal, GH is full on all the time. But for those of us over 35, we need every extra bit we can get!! I had some of my best resting HR's when I was doing swings according to this program (probably should revisit this!!). He advocated eating but minimizing carbs to as low as possible, b/c the carbs would halt GH response in its tracks. My results at this time weren't stellar as far as body composition, but my strength felt pretty good back then, prompting me to get a 32kg bell upgrade from my 24. I

In short, find what works for you. Don't cry b/c you missed a "window" that may not apply to you (especially the way SF advocates training). And to close, quick bit from Mark's Daily Apple on the subject (I think everything I said above he says with references ROFL) : Fasted Workouts: When They're More Effective (and How I Incorporate Them) | Mark's Daily Apple
 
What exactly is post work out anyways? I've had days, weeks even where my work days were more intense than most work days. Does that mean wait the ten hours of work and that's my post workout window? Now not everyone has a labour intensive job, but some people worry about their little half an hour workout time when some of us are lugging sacks of rail clips or pails of rail spikes and swinging hammers all day.
 
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