Barbell Powerlifters to 70kg - How they build strength without increasing bodyweight?

[Steve Freides]

Steve, I'm a few years older than you, but by far the most difficult thing to do in my case is eating enough quality food. From 15 to about 55, it was a cinch. So I had a good run, LOL.

That's interesting.

Over the years, I have focused on trying to keep the quality of my food high. Now I have no idea if Whole Foods is really better, but that's where we do most of our shopping. My opinion - maybe it's my wish and nothing more - is that eating good food would make overweight people thinner and people who are too thin, bigger. The quality of what I eat has improved along with the quality of what's available to purchase without having to become a backyard farmer or drive two hours to buy from a real one.

As I mentioned above, I'm for more volume than I used to - my lifting takes more of my time than it used to, something my wife has noticed. And the lifts I've added recently, the low-bar back squat and the bench press, have a reputation as mass builders.

Thirdly, I get on the scale every morning. I'm not completely nuts about it, e.g., I don't take a scale with us when we travel, but when I'm home, I'm on the scale every day, and that also helps me keep my weight where I want it. If I'm getting too light, I'll eat more. Now, with a meet in a few weeks, it's all about trying to ease down towards my competition weight.

-S-

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

My opinion - maybe it's my wish and nothing more - is that eating good food would make overweight people thinner and people who are too thin, bigger.

I feel pretty sure that was Jack LaLanne's philosophy. Eating the 'right stuff' until you're satisfied should get you where you need to be.

 

[watchnerd]

Definitely. Most high-level lifters will cut weight for competition.

Typically, they won't cut more than 6% of their bodyweight so it's not like they're massively heavier pre-comp.

My training weight is about 2% higher than my competition weight.

If I need / want to do a big creatine load, I'll go for more of a 4% cut.

 

[watchnerd]

There is also the issue of drug testing, something that has always been, in principle, possible for me but no one has ever asked to test me. Apparently they usually only test people in the open age brackets and the most competitive weight classes and divisions. And some organizations even have out-of-competition drug testing.

-S-

I've been tagged for testing twice in the last 3 years.

When I joked with the WADA rep that it must be a slow day if they're popping Masters lifters, he said that he hates testing Juniors (who were lifting at the same time) because they have to have an adult chaperone, get nervous, and then can't pee and he had a quota to fill....

 

[Anna C]

he hates testing Juniors (who were lifting at the same time) because they have to have an adult chaperone, get nervous, and then can't pee and he had a quota to fill....

If they ever join the military, they're gonna have to get used to it!

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

I've been tagged for testing twice in the last 3 years.

I would love to get drug tested just once: It would feel validation that I was moving some decent weight!

 

[LukeV]

I've been tagged for testing twice in the last 3 years.

When I joked with the WADA rep that it must be a slow day if they're popping Masters lifters, he said that he hates testing Juniors (who were lifting at the same time) because they have to have an adult chaperone, get nervous, and then can't pee and he had a quota to fill....

Some years ago the drug testers arrived at a school rowing competition in Melbourne. The competition was sanctioned by Australian Rowing so the drug testers were within their rights to be there. However, the principals gathered in a huddle and emerged to refuse permission for their students to be tested. They said that the intimate nature of the test including exposing the body meant that they lacked authority to consent on the part of the student, only a parent or guardian could lawfully consent to that kind of procedure. The drug testers huffed and puffed and threatened to blow the house down but the principals stood firm and the testing was abandoned. Ultimately the drug testing agency agreed that the principals had been correct and a new procedure requiring parental authorisation pre-competition was implemented. An interesting incident in the early days of extending drug testing to junior athletes

 

[Hardartery]

Some years ago the drug testers arrived at a school rowing competition in Melbourne. The competition was sanctioned by Australian Rowing so the drug testers were within their rights to be there. However, the principals gathered in a huddle and emerged to refuse permission for their students to be tested. They said that the intimate nature of the test including exposing the body meant that they lacked authority to consent on the part of the student, only a parent or guardian could lawfully consent to that kind of procedure. The drug testers huffed and puffed and threatened to blow the house down but the principals stood firm and the testing was abandoned. Ultimately the drug testing agency agreed that the principals had been correct and a new procedure requiring parental authorisation pre-competition was implemented. An interesting incident in the early days of extending drug testing to junior athletes

Better safe than sorry. Imagine what an accusation of doing something with a minor would have done to any of these testers? It doesn't even have to be legit, just an accusation because somebody is pissed off. The principals probably saved some people a lot of grief and money.

 

[Starlord]

If they ever join the military, they're gonna have to get used to it!

I can second that. Although I'm a dukie, so I was used to it from boarding school.

 

[LukeV]

I was thinking about weightlifting competitions where the weigh-in is 2 hours before the competition starts; in that short a period, a 6% bodyweight cut is the most I've been told you can get away with. 24 hour weigh-ins at weightlifting competitions would be a game changer.

I don't know why they don't conduct the weigh-in after the event. They do with jockeys and no-one complains. It would seem to eliminate a lot of the unhealthy practices associated with weight controlled sports. No-one is going to compete while dehydrated and starving, but plenty of people will give it a go being dehydrated and starving 24 hours before they compete

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

I don't know why they don't conduct the weigh-in after the event. They do with jockeys and no-one complains. It would seem to eliminate a lot of the unhealthy practices associated with weight controlled sports. No-one is going to compete while dehydrated and starving, but plenty of people will give it a go being dehydrated and starving 24 hours before they compete

Yeah, every sport seems to have a different approach.

In the old weightlifting rules (I think this changed in 2018?), if two lifters were tied with the same lifts, the medal would go to the lighter lifter. Now the lifter who makes the lift first takes precedence and lifters who follow will need to exceed their lifts to outdo them rather than match their lifts at a lower body weight. I think weighing-in after the event could mess up the flow of competition, especially if a competitor is successful in all of their attempts only to turn out to be overweight at the end of the competition and is disqualified (other lifters may have been pushing themselves unnecessarily hard to match/outdo an opponent who should not have even been eligible to compete in the first place).

If you have to dehydrate and starve yourself to make weight, you should probably go up a weight class. There are plenty of lifters in limited classes who, while absolutely not 'fat', are certainly not starving themselves to make weight and are highly competitive in their class (and possibly even in the class above).

It varies depending on the requirements of the sport but I think the 2 hour weigh-ins in weightlifting make sense and responsible coaches don't advocate unhealthy practices to make weight as they know their athletes will underperform and that defeats the purpose of even showing up at the meet. People are still going to do it, of course, but it's an individual thing.

I've never attended a powerlifting meet but a 24 hour weigh-in seems excessive, especially as it may involve an additional night's stay away from home just to stand on some scales. I may be misinterpreting how this actually plays out, of course. Competitors may be able to weigh-in remotely (although they'd be on the honour system there).

 

[Steve Freides]

I've never attended a powerlifting meet but a 24 hour weigh-in seems excessive, especially as it may involve an additional night's stay away from home just to stand on some scales. I may be misinterpreting how this actually plays out, of course. Competitors may be able to weigh-in remotely (although they'd be on the honour system there).

The USAPL follows weightlifting-like procedures, including the 2-hour weigh-in. The USAPL positions itself as the premier powerlifting federation in the US, and I agree with them. It is all about fairness of competition.

Most of the other federations, although you won't find it in their mission statements, want to bring more people into the sport of powerlifting and, to that end, use different rules about weigh-ins. Everyone still follows the same rules, it's just that the rules are different. Personally, if some guy wants to show up in my weight class and weigh 10 kg more than he did at the weigh-in, and he's willing to go through the trouble to make that happen, I'm willing to live with it. And it's also why I like to lift in all these federations, USAPL and other.

As to the hotel stay, you're right - in the USPA, you'd need to be there the day before. WNPF and others have both evening before and day-of weigh-ins so a hotel stay isn't strictly necessary provided you're driving distance from the meet location.

-S-

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

In the old weightlifting rules (I think this changed in 2018?), if two lifters were tied with the same lifts, the medal would go to the lighter lifter. Now the lifter who makes the lift first takes precedence and lifters who follow will need to exceed their lifts to outdo them rather than match their lifts at a lower body weight.

Weightlifting

By Weightlifting, you mean Olympic Lifting.

Same Lift

I am not familiar with the Olympic Lifting Rules. However, I suspect that the same is true as in Powerlifting; since Powerlifter pretty much used Olympic Lifting as it's templet.

I did a cursory reading of the Olympic Rule book but didn't find the rule on this.

With that said, the first lifter in Powerlifting to set the record in a individual lift (Squat, Bench Press, or Deadlift), owns the record, regardless of if they are heavier. Since there a so many Powerlifting Organization, it hard to keep up with the rules in all of them.

That the was rule of the first Powerlifting Federation. The first to set the record, owned it. The weight of the lifter did not come into play.

Lifting Totals Match: Lighter Man/Woman Wins

The rule of the lighter man/woman winning over the heavier lifter is the rule.

If both lifter end up with the same total, the lighter lifter wins.

I think weighing-in after the event could mess up the flow of competition, especially if a competitor is successful in all of their attempts only to turn out to be overweight at the end of the competition and is disqualified (other lifters may have been pushing themselves unnecessarily hard to match/outdo an opponent who should not have even been eligible to compete in the first place).

Weighing After Lifting

This is an interesting idea with a lot of issues to resolve.

It would be hard to declare which weight class you would be lifting in. Thus, hard to know who you were lifting against.

Also, a lighter, stronger lifter could move up and displace heavier, weaker lifters in the weight.

Example

A buddy of mine in the 165 lb class was much stronger than I and the rest of the 181 weight class.

The 165 lb class was brutal.

My buddy weighed right in at 165 lbs. It would not have taken much eating or drinking to get him over the 165 lb weight and then into the 181 lb class.

He would have placed first in the 181 lb weight class just above 165 lbs rather than second in the 165 lb class.

None of we in the 181 lb weight class would have seen it coming or know until the end.

Disqualification Due to Being Overweight

I question if this would happen. If it did it would create some health issues from lifters having to watch what the ate or drank during the competition. Some might need to continue to weigh on the meet scales prior to eating or drinking something...crazy crap like that.

In Meets In that require a 2 Hour Weight In, if your weight is more than the Weight Class that you listed on your Registration Form, you are then place in the higher weight class. You are not disqualified. Most likely that would be what would occur with Post Meet Weigh In, as well.

The USAPL follows weightlifting-like procedures, including the 2-hour weigh-in.

2 Hour Weight In Rule

This was the rule with the first Powerlifting Federations. It was/is a good rule.

I am not sure how we migrated to weighing in around 24 hour ahead of time.

To some extent, early Weigh In had to do with large meets.

Some meets would have 100 lifter. It took forever to get everyone weighted in.

That is one of the reason that some meet allow you to weight in the 24 hour before the meet as well as the night before.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

Weightlifting

By Weightlifting, you mean Olympic Lifting.

Indeed. 'Weightlifting' a dreadfully vague name for something that has become very specific, although in the early days of the sport, there were numerous lifts performed in competition such as one and two-handed lifts, various presses for both maximum weight and repetitions. 'Olympic weightlifting' works to avoid confusion but this is much to the chagrin of my inner pedant who exclaims "But they have other competitions all the time and they're not the Olympics!" (this is without even going into the perilous state that weightlifting is currently in with regards to its continued place in the Olympic program).

And then there's the dreadful misnomer of 'powerlifting' versus 'weightlifting' but what can you do? We've gone too far to turn back now!

2 Hour Weight In Rule

This was the rule with the first Powerlifting Federations. It was/is a good rule.

Agreed!

Also, a lighter, stronger lifter could move up and displace heavier, weaker lifters in the weight.

I'm struggling to find references to when they ditched the 'bodyweight rule' in O-lifting but it must have been after 2016 as it was still in effect for the Rio Olympics. It is definitely the case now that the lifter who successfully attempts weight first takes precedence and bodyweight is simply used to be eligible to lift in one's weight class (at least as far as the IWF and its member federations are concerned).

I much prefer the incentive to lift heavier weights in competition rather than being able to match another lifter and win on bodyweight. I'm more in favour of sticking another kilogram on the bar rather than spitting/sweating/dehydrating another kilo off your bodyweight. Saying that, all that sweating and starving doesn't mean a thing if someone outlifts you anyway.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

And then there's the dreadful misnomer of 'powerlifting' versus 'weightlifting' but what can you do? We've gone too far to turn back now!

The general population has no idea of Powerlifting, and Weightlifting are two different sports.

The general public who goes lifts weight, usually identify themselves as "Weightlifters". Trying to educate or correct them isn't worth the effort.

Powerlifting is a misnomer. There is no Power in it.

The general population makes statement that they are clueless about.

One of my favorite is when they tell me that a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat; when they are the same.

What the mean is the a pound of fat is much denser than a pound of fat

I'm struggling to find references to when they ditched the 'bodyweight rule' in O-lifting but it must have been after 2016

I question if was changed without seeing it referenced in a rule book.

I much prefer the incentive to lift heavier weights in competition rather than being able to match another lifter and win on bodyweight

am fine with the rule that if both lifters arrive a the same total, the lighter lifter wins.

I have been on both end of that outcome.

Saying that, all that sweating and starving doesn't mean a thing if someone outlifts you anyway.

Yea, but if you do win, being the lighter lifter makes all the difference.

 

[bluejeff]

I am out of my knowledgeable territory here, but it reminds me of some of the discussions I've heard Joe Rogan bring up about MMA fighters, and fighters in general trying to cut down to make weight classes. In their case its an issue of safety; being too dehydrated too close to a fight increases their chances of getting a brain injury.

The whole concept of weighing in for a competition farther than a couple hours prior seems really strange to me, as a relative outsider to such events. It seems like it just fosters the mentality of cutting to make a lower class and gain an advantage, while potentially risking health. It seems like weighing in as close to the event as possible would be the best. Make competitors train as close to the class that's best for them, instead of trying to game the system to gain an advantage.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

I question if was changed without seeing it referenced in a rule book.

Rightly so! I found it:

From the 'IWF Technical and Competition Rule and Regulations 2020' (link)

​

6.8.2 Factors to decide the classification of athletes in Snatch and Clean & Jerk:​

1. best result – highest first; if identical, then:​

2. best result’s attempt number – least number of attempt first; if identical, then:​

3. previous attempt(s) – least number of attempt first; if identical, then:​

4. lot number – lowest first​

​

Factors to decide the classification of athletes in Total:​

1. best result – highest first; if identical, then:​

2. best Clean & Jerk result – lowest first; if identical, then:​

3. best Clean & Jerk result’s attempt number – least number of attempt first; if identical, then:​

4. previous attempt(s) – least number of attempt first; if identical, then:​

5. lot number – lowest first.In the case of tie(s) in different group(s), the athlete(s) who competed earlier in time will be ranked higher regardless the attempt number at which the athletes reached the relevant result. (See Regulation to 6.8)​

​

Athlete lot numbers are drawn at random and determine the order the athletes weigh-in and the order in which they take their attempts in the instance of multiple athletes wishing to attempt the same weight if they're both at the same attempt (i.e. both on their first, second or third - an athlete's first attempt will take precedence over another's second etc.).

I hope this makes sense. I still can't find any reference as to when these rules were introduced.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

I am out of my knowledgeable territory here, but it reminds me of some of the discussions I've heard Joe Rogan bring up about MMA fighters, and fighters in general trying to cut down to make weight classes. In their case its an issue of safety; being too dehydrated too close to a fight increases their chances of getting a brain injury.

The whole concept of weighing in for a competition farther than a couple hours prior seems really strange to me, as a relative outsider to such events. It seems like it just fosters the mentality of cutting to make a lower class and gain an advantage, while potentially risking health. It seems like weighing in as close to the event as possible would be the best. Make competitors train as close to the class that's best for them, instead of trying to game the system to gain an advantage.

This is true in most regards. However, not all organizations are doing it the same. UFC's change was to make the weigh-in's the morning before the fight, to give fighters about 36 hours to recover instead of 24. ONE Championship has instituted a different tactic with multiple weigh-ins the week of, and you are only allowed to be a certain amount of weight over at each step, to keep dehydration to a minimum and keep people closer to their actual weight.

The problem arrises from money in things like MMA fights. People of course want to gain any advantage they can, so cutting weight has helped them do that, but if you were to move weigh-ins to 2 hours before the fight so they have to fight at their natural weight and they MISS weight, what do you do? The fights have to be sanctioned, and with 24 hours they have the opportunity to move fights around, find a last minute replacement, cancel the fight, etc. But with 2 hours, there simply wouldn't be the time to resolve these issues and it could cost millions or hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[bluejeff]

UFC's change was to make the weigh-in's the morning before the fight, to give fighters about 36 hours to recover instead of 24.

That was kind of my point; why should athletes have to recover from their weigh in?

The problem arrises from money in things like MMA fights. People of course want to gain any advantage they can, so cutting weight has helped them do that, but if you were to move weigh-ins to 2 hours before the fight so they have to fight at their natural weight and they MISS weight, what do you do? The fights have to be sanctioned, and with 24 hours they have the opportunity to move fights around, find a last minute replacement, cancel the fight, etc. But with 2 hours, there simply wouldn't be the time to resolve these issues and it could cost millions or hundreds of millions of dollars.

And then there's this. That's why athletes have to recover from their weigh in: ???

In sports like power/weightlifting though.... it seems like there's less often that HUGE cash prize on the line.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

That was kind of my point; why should athletes have to recover from their weigh in?

From my perspective, if you have to 'recover' from your weigh-in, you've not managed your nutrition leading to competition correctly. However, give someone a 24 hour weigh-in and the knowledge that they can get away with doing something fairly extreme to give them a competitive edge and they'll take full advantage, even if there's not that much on the line. Amateur athletes take PEDs as well. Some people are just highly competitive by nature.

Another reason why losing the 'lighter athlete wins in the event of a tie' rule from O-lifting seems a better idea to me.