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Kettlebell Pre-Teen: S&S or Yessis 1*20

Nate

Level 6 Valued Member
My children are capable of doing S&S, so am I better off staying with that to develop athleticism & health; or should I go with Yessis 1*20 to ensure that all the joint movements are being covered & they're not having compensations with the compound movements of S&S? Any feedback is great, thanks!
 

Ege

Level 6 Valued Member
Which one would they like? You might seriously run two sessions of those with them and asked them which one they want. So they can have a stake in selection and probably stick with it w further commitment.

They are lucky children. If they create a habit of exercise early on, they will do great…

Whatever they like, will work IMHO and it is much more important than finding the right program. If they stick w exercising habit, they will find their own love and way…
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
Humans are meant to walk, run, crawl, jump, hang, wrestle, skip, bound, sneak, roll, swim, throw, lift, carry, brachiate and all that. What about letting kids play and evolve by moving in the most diverse ways possible? Just thinking it might be too early to push a program on them. Besides, in the case of S&S, I have a tough time seeing a teenager, let alone a child, properly evolve by doing a program which enforces linear patterns and programming using three movements.
 
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Nate

Level 6 Valued Member
Humans are meant to walk, run, crawl, jump, hang, wrestle, skip, bound, sneak, roll, swim, throw, lift, carry, brachiate and all that. What about letting kids play and evolve by moving in the most diverse ways possible? Just thinking it might be too early to push a program on them. Besides, in the case of S&S, I have a tough time seeing a teenager, let alone a child, properly evolve by doing a program which enforces linear patterns and programming using three movements.
I'd agree except I see knee valgus & complains of pain after soccer & volleyball games; and pronated shoulders with flared scaps in baseball. I see too many kids in casts or crutches to think sports can't injure imbalanced or unstable bodies...
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
I'd agree except I see knee valgus & complains of pain after soccer & volleyball games; and pronated shoulders with flared scaps in baseball. I see too many kids in casts or crutches to think sports can't injure imbalanced or unstable bodies...
Good point. Sports are different, too much of one thing is bad.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
My children are capable of doing S&S, so am I better off staying with that to develop athleticism & health; or should I go with Yessis 1*20 to ensure that all the joint movements are being covered & they're not having compensations with the compound movements of S&S? Any feedback is great, thanks!
Gray Cook had a podcast a while back talking about his switch to elementary gym class.
One of his big points was that kids move better than adults so he didn’t try to change their movement patterns, just reinforce them with play.

Edit: found it
 
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Nate

Level 6 Valued Member
Gray Cook had a podcast a while back talking about his switch to elementary gym class.
One of his big points was that kids move better than adults so he didn’t try to change their movement patterns, just reinforce them with play.
If they still moved like this, I wouldn't worry about it. Watching other parents ignore pain & clear movement issues, only to end up with an orthopedist makes me hesitant.
1674583758276.png
 

TimothyGander

Level 5 Valued Member
Humans are meant to walk, run, crawl, jump, hang, wrestle, skip, bound, sneak, roll, swim, throw, lift, carry, brachiate and all that. What about letting kids play and evolve by moving in the most diverse ways possible?
What about kids who, left with no structure, will simply do nothing at all? I was one of them and I would certainly benefit from a structured program. Hearing all that's said about the current children's screen time and seeing all the young people walking around with some degree of lower crossed syndrome makes me think it has only become more common since I've grown up.
Besides, in the case of S&S, I have a tough time seeing a teenager, let alone a child, properly evolve by doing a program which enforces linear patterns and programming using three movements.
I think you have the dichotomy wrong. It's not a choice between just three movements and a multitude, but between three (of however many there will be in a chosen training program) or zero (which is what will likely happen if the parents or other adults don't provide some structure). Whatever the merits of S&S, I'm absolutely certain it's superior to sedentary living. And if you consider it insufficient, then the answer should be a program that includes more movement patterns and more self-regulated programming, not passively avoiding the issue in a hope it will sort itself out somehow.
One of his big points was that kids move better than adults so he didn’t try to change their movement patterns, just reinforce them with play.
Better is relative, and in these times, it doesn't mean much.

Bottom line: you just can't expect Kids These Days to figure out how to move on their own. I'm barely over 30 and all the older guys' (with all due respect) talk of "play" and all the other things children supposedly do all day that obviates the need of a structured training program makes me feel like I've recently arrived from Mars. Even in my own childhood TV and computers were already establishing themselves as the default free time activity. And right now, I imagine, the internet, video games and Netflix are just more interesting and more comfortable than anything you could possibly do outside.

My own upbringing generally predisposes me to dismissing attitudes such as "you shouldn't push things on kids". Providing a structure to life is what parents are FOR, in my opinion, and having a father who lifts is a tremendous asset to @Nate 's kids that should be fully utilized instead of shied away from.

That said, I would start with bodyweight training, NW style, with possible inclusion of pullups and maybe kettlebell deadlifts. S&S lifts may be dangerous (the kettlebell doesn't just look like a cannonball, it can quickly transform into one if handled by someone careless), 4 kg jumps too big, and the prescribed progression too quick.
 

the hansenator

Level 6 Valued Member
Just my own experience but I grew up before computers or cell phones. While I was certainly more active than many of today's kids, I wonder how my life might have been different if I had a coach or someone who could show me how to train or explained why certian things were important. It might have saved me from some of the aches and pains over the years that physical therapy was able to help but being strong might have prevented.
 

Nate

Level 6 Valued Member
Just my own experience but I grew up before computers or cell phones. While I was certainly more active than many of today's kids, I wonder how my life might have been different if I had a coach or someone who could show me how to train or explained why certian things were important. It might have saved me from some of the aches and pains over the years that physical therapy was able to help but being strong might have prevented.
Our football coach in the early 90s told us to go lift. That meant max out on bench, do some curls & leave. Would have LOVED a real S&C coach to make me learn.
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
What about kids who, left with no structure, will simply do nothing at all? I was one of them and I would certainly benefit from a structured program. Hearing all that's said about the current children's screen time and seeing all the young people walking around with some degree of lower crossed syndrome makes me think it has only become more common since I've grown up.

I think you have the dichotomy wrong. It's not a choice between just three movements and a multitude, but between three (of however many there will be in a chosen training program) or zero (which is what will likely happen if the parents or other adults don't provide some structure). Whatever the merits of S&S, I'm absolutely certain it's superior to sedentary living. And if you consider it insufficient, then the answer should be a program that includes more movement patterns and more self-regulated programming, not passively avoiding the issue in a hope it will sort itself out somehow.

Better is relative, and in these times, it doesn't mean much.

Bottom line: you just can't expect Kids These Days to figure out how to move on their own. I'm barely over 30 and all the older guys' (with all due respect) talk of "play" and all the other things children supposedly do all day that obviates the need of a structured training program makes me feel like I've recently arrived from Mars. Even in my own childhood TV and computers were already establishing themselves as the default free time activity. And right now, I imagine, the internet, video games and Netflix are just more interesting and more comfortable than anything you could possibly do outside.

My own upbringing generally predisposes me to dismissing attitudes such as "you shouldn't push things on kids". Providing a structure to life is what parents are FOR, in my opinion, and having a father who lifts is a tremendous asset to @Nate 's kids that should be fully utilized instead of shied away from.

That said, I would start with bodyweight training, NW style, with possible inclusion of pullups and maybe kettlebell deadlifts. S&S lifts may be dangerous (the kettlebell doesn't just look like a cannonball, it can quickly transform into one if handled by someone careless), 4 kg jumps too big, and the prescribed progression too quick.
I completely agree with you and @Nate (man that’s an effortless looking squat right there). What I meant was that instead of pushing a linear, minimal program, wouldn’t it be more ideal to teach and get children first to do natural movements (walk, run, crawl, jump, hang, wrestle, skip, bound, sneak, roll, swim, throw, lift, carry, brachiate…) using less linear methods, such as by utilising play? Of course S&S is better than nothing, but I dare to say that getting kids to do as many of the natural movements as possible is better. This of course demands more from one as a parent as well because instead of giving their kids a kettlebell, they would have to take them hiking, swimming, to play with monkey bars, tumbling etc. But I am nearly certain that it would pay off big time by ensuring kids a proper neurological and emotional development (through playful movement), and maybe the kids would get more excited about active lifestyle (compared to by endlessly repeating three kettlebell movements). Either way, movement is multitudes better than no movement!
 

Sam Goldner

Level 5 Valued Member
I really like to have kids/teens do some sort of structured-ish workout to support their sport. It helps avoid a lot of the issues down the line that you mentioned, and possibly introduces them to something they will love even when not playing their sport(s) due to the end of the season, injury, or whatever. It also builds an amazing habit for when they’re older and need to workout regularly because life gets in the way of always being able to play.

There’s a happy medium between your options, which is both/and. Use S&S as your meat and potatoes but change the spices every workout to include different things in the warmup and cooldown. Do some of the other stuff on in between days, too, if you want, or even as part of the game day warmup and cooldown. So you’ll be using S&S for consistent work and progress in key areas of athleticism and foundational development, and the other stuff will be to fill gaps. You could even use 1*20 as the general guide for the “other stuff.” Just keep an eye on volume and intensity for S&S and 1*20 and don’t overdo it since you’ll be pairing them together and with whatever else your kids are doing. Start with less load and volume than you think you need, see how they respond for a 3-4 weeks, then gradually up it from there. Meaning, for example, you don’t need to start with the full 100 swings and 10 heavy getups.

The point is, use your judgement. Your head is in the right place to do something supplemental, you’re looking at two good options on different ends of the spectrum that each come with pros and cons, and, as usual, the solution is probably somewhere in the middle.

Dr. Yesis is incredible; he’s a gift to the field, but I find a lot of his stuff is more complicated than I’d like for implementation. That doesn’t mean it’s bad; it’s not him, it’s me, there’s more fish in the sea, and all that.
 

Nate

Level 6 Valued Member
Thanks for all the great input. For now, I'm going to go the low set, high exercise route (1*20ish) to cover all the movement patterns, but pay closer attention to individual needs (shoulder stability for my son & hip activation for daughter). Most exercises are bodyweight, though I will include the KB movements which they are fairly proficient at completing. Some single joint work will use bands. All will be done by feel, without pushing weight or fatigue. Again, great replies and discussion!
 

TimothyGander

Level 5 Valued Member
What I meant was that instead of pushing a linear, minimal program, wouldn’t it be more ideal to teach and get children first to do natural movements (walk, run, crawl, jump, hang, wrestle, skip, bound, sneak, roll, swim, throw, lift, carry, brachiate…) using less linear methods, such as by utilising play?
I do not strongly disagree with anything you said in this thread. It may be that the approach you're suggesting is superior. I do not hold strong, well-reasoned opinions about optimal conditions for neurological and emotional development of children. My initial disagreement with your post was less "you are wrong, I am right" and more "even if you're right, it's not going to happen". Because how exactly you are going to pull the kids away from screens? And in 2023, unless you're Amish (and apparently even they have to increasingly make peace with modern technology as there's no longer enough available land), "voluntarily chosen kids' play" almost 100% equals "screens".

Simply telling them to do so will get you only so far and is almost bound to backfire eventually as they learn to associate physical activity with coercion (not to mention "mandatory play" is just a horrific idea if you think about it, almost like "mandatory fun").

What I think could work is explaining and incentivizing training in a way a child can understand. Logic such as "you need to do this thing you don't want to do for your emotional and neurological development" will fly over the heads of most 10-year olds. Tell them they could swing a 32 kg kettlebell (or deadlift 300, or hit whatever other measurable, achievable goal) if they diligently work for it and you might get an earnest buy-in.

Another thing that's important, I think, is the need to feel adult, to imitate parents and other adult role models. If Dad is cool and he lifts kettlebells and barbells, this is what his kids will want to do, not some special children-designated stuff.

Yet another important aspect of this I haven't touched on is the importance of building habits. If you met a group of my age peers, you probably couldn't differentiate between former "outside kids" and "inside kids" as the inclination and opportunities to play have disappeared once they entered adulthood (you might argue it's a bad thing, and I concur; but it's not something solvable by one family, so a moot point). Yet you probably could with some accuracy distinguish those who have been taught personal grooming at home from those who weren't, because it's an individual habit that sticks and is entirely compatible with standard Western adult lifestyle.

What you do with your kids right now doesn't impact just their current period of development, but their entire life. A 50 year old accountant probably will not be doing much "hiking, swimming, to play with monkey bars, tumbling" anymore no matter how many activities were pushed on him when he was 10. But he might still be lifting kettlebells and teach his own children to do likewise. So is it better to train forty movement patterns for ten years, or three for forty? Especially that he might not necessarily do the exact program(s) he was taught as a kid (and who said it has to be just one), just as he might not use the same toothpaste brand his parents did. But both strength training and brushing his teeth would remain a natural part of his life.
 

lais817

Level 6 Valued Member
in 2023, unless you're Amish (and apparently even they have to increasingly make peace with modern technology as there's no longer enough available land), "voluntarily chosen kids' play" almost 100% equals "screens".
In the same vein as your comment, this isn't a "You're wrong, I'm right", but a different viewpoint, so please take it that way.

I'm 35, with a 7 and 5 year old and definitely not Amish. We live in suburban Australia and their chosen play is not screens, because my wife and I have made a conscious effort to not let it be. We're not perfect, and our kids are glued to the TV or a tablet when it is available, like every human - they are designed to hook your attention. But by providing good, decent alternatives like going for a walk through the bush, heading to the beach, playing together (that means parents too) in the yard, painting, drawing etc, it gets them doing other things by default.

The issue today is that people are too bloody lazy to put their own phone/tablet down and put some effort into their kids. All 99% of kids really want, is to have their parent's attention and interaction.

Big props to everyone on here and the population at large who gives enough of a sh!t about their kids to put their own needs aside and get them moving in some form or another, because it can be a lot of work sometimes.
 

Kirill Igorevich

Level 2 Valued Member
Everyone with kids, you do yourselves a favor if you SEND you kids to some sport AND do something together. Not braging...or am i: I was in wrestling, Did one arm push up and pistol sq without practice. Still can at 46yrs. I HAVE to always pay attention at my 11yrs son's activity even though he's in soccer now because the soccer practice isn't enough, children are now less active than ever. We do strenght training 10min couple times a week, hill sprints couple times a week and some movements from Tim Anderson's O.S. TRX is a nice tool to start with.
 

Kirill Igorevich

Level 2 Valued Member
Everyone with kids, you do yourselves a favor if you SEND you kids to some sport AND do something together. Not braging...or am i: I was in wrestling, Did one arm push up and pistol sq without practice. Still can at 46yrs. I HAVE to always pay attention at my 11yrs son's activity even though he's in soccer now because the soccer practice isn't enough, children are now less active than ever. We do strenght training 10min couple times a week, hill sprints couple times a week and some movements from Tim Anderson's O.S. TRX is a nice tool to start with.
This was more as in easy and semi planned activity suggestions. S&S will work just fine...
 

dc

Level 6 Valued Member
My son is 12 & we train 6 days a week together. The following is our week. I train like an adult, my boy uses very moderate weights & works on perfecting form.
6 day/week we do 9 minute challenge & walk for 20mins at end of each session.
Monday- s&s
Tuesday- Super Simple Strength routine from Original Strength.
Wednesday- barbell squats, press, chins & deadlift.
Thursday- s&s
Friday- Super Simple Strength.
Saturday- barbell squats, bench press, rows & deadlift.
Seems a lot on paper but none of the sessions go over 30mins & that’s including the 9 minute challenge. As I said before his weights are very moderate, heavy enough to feel the movements but light enough to be safe & not affect his growing body.
The week covers pretty much every human movement you can think of in a short amount of time. He loves doing it & he hassles/motivates me on days I’m not feeling it. Everydays different especially the SSS days as no 2 of them are the same. I didn’t start him on this program until he hit 12 & was starting to show obvious signs of puberty, before that we basically just played outside together. He’s getting quite strong for his age despite the light weights. I think this is because he’s learning to use his body properly & regularly. As he started hitting puberty I noticed he wanted to play less outside & rather play video games with his friends so I implemented the above routine to ensure daily movement. The wth effect is now he’s training regularly he wants to do more active endeavour, bonus.
Hope this helps @Nate
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
I do not strongly disagree with anything you said in this thread. It may be that the approach you're suggesting is superior. I do not hold strong, well-reasoned opinions about optimal conditions for neurological and emotional development of children. My initial disagreement with your post was less "you are wrong, I am right" and more "even if you're right, it's not going to happen". Because how exactly you are going to pull the kids away from screens? And in 2023, unless you're Amish (and apparently even they have to increasingly make peace with modern technology as there's no longer enough available land), "voluntarily chosen kids' play" almost 100% equals "screens".

Simply telling them to do so will get you only so far and is almost bound to backfire eventually as they learn to associate physical activity with coercion (not to mention "mandatory play" is just a horrific idea if you think about it, almost like "mandatory fun").

What I think could work is explaining and incentivizing training in a way a child can understand. Logic such as "you need to do this thing you don't want to do for your emotional and neurological development" will fly over the heads of most 10-year olds. Tell them they could swing a 32 kg kettlebell (or deadlift 300, or hit whatever other measurable, achievable goal) if they diligently work for it and you might get an earnest buy-in.

Another thing that's important, I think, is the need to feel adult, to imitate parents and other adult role models. If Dad is cool and he lifts kettlebells and barbells, this is what his kids will want to do, not some special children-designated stuff.

Yet another important aspect of this I haven't touched on is the importance of building habits. If you met a group of my age peers, you probably couldn't differentiate between former "outside kids" and "inside kids" as the inclination and opportunities to play have disappeared once they entered adulthood (you might argue it's a bad thing, and I concur; but it's not something solvable by one family, so a moot point). Yet you probably could with some accuracy distinguish those who have been taught personal grooming at home from those who weren't, because it's an individual habit that sticks and is entirely compatible with standard Western adult lifestyle.

What you do with your kids right now doesn't impact just their current period of development, but their entire life. A 50 year old accountant probably will not be doing much "hiking, swimming, to play with monkey bars, tumbling" anymore no matter how many activities were pushed on him when he was 10. But he might still be lifting kettlebells and teach his own children to do likewise. So is it better to train forty movement patterns for ten years, or three for forty? Especially that he might not necessarily do the exact program(s) he was taught as a kid (and who said it has to be just one), just as he might not use the same toothpaste brand his parents did. But both strength training and brushing his teeth would remain a natural part of his life.
What you say makes a lot of sense and has resonating insights. Thanks for sharing, some good food for thought in your post and also in other ones on this thread.
 
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