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Kettlebell Press...Press....Press...where's the pull?

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I can understand how the swings- especially heavy contribute to the pull- what sparked my original query was the amount of complex's that has a clean/press/squat, but no dedicated pull. But now that I've seen the total tension complex, I think this programming is perfect.
 
After some thought, I will modify the TT Complex with chin-ups (instead of rows) however, I will pyramid the chin-ups. Just thinking how to program this in- but at least matching the press pyramid.

I personally wouldn't go changing it. maybe do a few pull ups after the the main complex is done.
 
Right- I will try this with 3 chins in lieu of the rows- that gives me 18 chins per session, which I can always add reps to if it's getting too easy. Makes the programming easier!
 
The big 6 are
Squat
TGU (push, unilateral squat)
Press
Swing (hinge pull)
Clean (hinge pull)
Snatch (hinge pull)
From a functional strength and health standpoint, i really doubt your back will be a weakness. Dan John's Help Me Screw Things Up supports the swing as a pull.
 
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And yet, the Total Tension Complex has a pull (renegade row), I haven't (yet) felt that the clean is giving me enough 'pull' to balance out the pressing movements. Now, when it comes to S&S, that (for me) feels like it covers everything. I still love doing chins afterwards though....
 
heavy 1 hand swings (S&S) works my back well. then in step 2 (RoP) the clean isnt heavy enough, but it's paired with snatches and pull ups. then total tension has renegade rows. for me, even the big 6 is enough pulling. just depends on individual wants and needs. ..
 
I don’t do rows as often as I should, but then again I have say that my back responds very well to everything. It activates really easily. This is very individual thing. Some of us do very well without direct upperback work and someone needs pullups/rows.
Truth is that kettlebell ballistics are hinge, but there is bit of upperbody pull as well. High pulls and snatches are big pulls IMO.
 
With the big pulls floating around, can someone tell me what qualifies as a little pull?

Interestingly, there are a lot of sensible and successful people doing big deadlifts, who still want to do some rows and/or pull-ups in addition to the deadlifts.
 
With the big pulls floating around, can someone tell me what qualifies as a little pull?

Interestingly, there are a lot of sensible and successful people doing big deadlifts, who still want to do some rows and/or pull-ups in addition to the deadlifts.
I might be wrong but a "big" pull refers to the amount of muscles involved. IE entire posterior chain. A little pull is probably a Lat pulldown for example that isolates compared to pullups.
 
This has come up in another thread, but there are a few different meanings of the word "pull" in strength training. One is synonymous with "hinge" and is used to describe the deadlift, clean, and snatch. This use of the word also describes the kettlebell quick lifts. When the swing is referred to a pull, it is meant in this way.

Another use of the word designates those movements as "hinge", and reserves the word "pull" to upper body movements like pull ups and rows. Dan John likes to hit at least each of the movements, even if just as a warmup, every day. This means you can do some batwings for a few sets of 20 seconds (basically an isometric hold at the top of a row) but you don't need to necessarily program intense training for it if its not the focus of your program. That would still fall into Dan John's idea of "balancing" those fundamental patterns. And of course, for the minimalist (like our very own Steve Freides and many other SF practitioners), even that level of subdivision isn't strictly necessary. As others have pointed out, overhead pressing involves muscles of the upper back, as do the one armed quick lifts to a degree, either isometrically (deadlift, swings), or even dynamically like in a kettlebell high pull or snatch.
 
I put regular rows in my training to supplement the range of motion and vary the gravitational direction of the pull load. Without them, I find myself kind of stuck in a stabilized, isometric state so a little extra love at the end ranges of protracted and retracted positions keeps my shoulders from getting too cranky.
 
I know I'm in the shunned minority, but I have personally found that I do better when I do some rows along my kettlebell presses.
Absolutely. Inverted rows as a warm-up are my current implementation of pulls.
 
Do not overlook the fact that in pressing kettlebells in the hardstyle the descent back to the rack should be done imagining a pull up. In other words you actively use your pulling musculature after a press. This is in addition to the clean.
 
Our lifts are all tools to achieve a physiological goal. A hammer is used more than mallet, but sometimes you need one of those too. Many can get enough back work with deadlifts or swings, some want/need rows/chins. Some need special work to get scapular retraction so their deadlifts and swings work better. Just depends on the person's wants & needs......
 
If you like pull ups, I would vote yes - they just may not be as smooth a transition as the renegade rows in the kB workout program you are looking at (walk a few steps to pull up bar rather than dropping for the rows). I do think there is room for supplementation/expansion of the pulling movements in many of the kB combos I come across.

Consider both chins and pull ups, as well as working in some hanging time before or after the pull ups to give the shoulders and spine a little love after all that pressing ;). Another nice movement that you could rotate in is the pullover (kB, or other weights) from supine lying position on bench.
 
With the big pulls floating around, can someone tell me what qualifies as a little pull?

Interestingly, there are a lot of sensible and successful people doing big deadlifts, who still want to do some rows and/or pull-ups in addition to the deadlifts.
Pullups and rows are basically little pulls because they hit only upperbody. Deadlifts, swings etc hit mostly lower body, but hit also upperbody to some degree. :)
 
I view as "little pull" movements that hit the upper and middle back as assisted activation. Cleans, snatches, overhead pressing, static overhead all make use of stabilization mostly. Cleans and snatches have a heavy component of ballistic momentum that augments the pull. Even pulling down the bell on an overhead press involves practitioner -supplied tension. The load is not opposite the muscles doing the work and the ROM doesn't directly challenge those muscles.

Deadlift and other hinge movements also fall into this category as the load is likewise not opposite the muscles being worked or they are only working in a stabilizing mode with very little ROM.

To me a "big pull" is any of the pull-ups/chin-ups, bent rows, Tbar rows, renegade rows etc. When your elbow is pulled all the way back to chamber under a load, tight to the ribcage or out to the side, that's a "big pull" movement.
 
Well stated North Coast Miller- while I'm no KB 'pro', my upper body always feels better when I add on chin-ups or rows to my regular KB sessions. I've been enjoying the 'grease the groove' chin up style as of late.
 
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