Kettlebell Press to Front Squat Ratio?

[Benjamin]

Press to squat ratio?

I was wondering what the right balance of 2KB presses to 2KB front squats with a given pair of kettlebells should be to have balanced strength. The reason I'm asking is that the heaviest pair of doubles I have are 24kg and I want to identify weaknesses/imbalances. When I first started front squatting with them, my quads felt like they were beaten with a baseball bat the next day. And that was after 5 singles. Embarrassing, I know. Anyways, I got better at them, but can still only do a rep or 2 more than my press. (Yes, I used to be able to press more than I front squatted, haha)

Side reference: Currently working on S&S and a "light" version of TTC.
TTC light really helped my 1H SW, couldn't get past 1 set of 32kg before I started. TGU developed much faster on its own, but still became easier after starting TTC light.

For example, if one can military press a pair 7 times (clean and stopping short of failure) how many front squats would be comparable with the same bells to have balanced strength? What about other doubles drills, like renegade rows, double swings, double snatches?

 

[Steve Freides]

There is no need for "balance" here - just work on your 2-kb front squat. We're all going to be different in this. I can squat a pair of 32's but can't press them.

-S-

 

[Maine-ah KB]

Yeah so my one rep max for double press is 28kg (sometimes. its right at the point you put a ? mark next to it) my front squat is only limited by what I can clean, for example cleaning 32s is hard for me but I can DFSQ them about 5-6 times.

 

[Benjamin]

Thank you Sir, will do.
Quads were always my weak spot when I did Rugged Maniacs, or any running that involved hills. I have a pair of 16kg bells, but that didn't do much to help (front squats, different single leg drills) as they always turned into endurance (10+ reps) rather than strength. Front squatting 2B24's was a real wake-up.

 

[Alan Mackey]

Some time ago, I made a point to work until these ratios were aproximately the same: romanian deadlift, front squat, push press, clean, bent over row, dip and pull up.

 

[Marc]

Naturally your front squat will/should be a bit stronger than your press because the muscle groups involved are a lot larger.
If you can double press 2x24 5x a "normal" 5 RM for front squats will be around 2x32.

 

[Anders]

I think people put different things into the word balance.

The sources I have read, and what makes most sense to me is that there is a) a certain balance between antagonistic muscles and 2) a certain balance between upper body strength and lower body strength and 3) a balance between how much you train different muscle groups.

The stereotype of an imbalances training program would be the beach body. Strong abs, chest and biceps, and week lats, erector spinae and posterior shoulders. The other would be strong and muscular upper body and weak and unmuscular lower body.

So the way I see things, it is not that relevant what the "right" balance between kettlebell front press and kettlebell front squats. If you have huge shoulders and average legs it probably will not hurt you. And if leg strength is important to you and your shoulders are impeding your ability to hold a pair of heavy kettlebells, then you might work on pistols, weighted pistols or simply use a barbell.

***
Some of these other movements like double swings, double snatches are kind of advanced moves and if you are not very experienced in using them it will probably be more the lack of technique than the lack of strength that is holding you back from using heavier weights.

 

[Steve W.]

Apples to oranges -- the ratio is meaningless.

In the context of TTC, it does become relevant because of the structure of the program. If your FSQ is way ahead of your press, the FSQ ladder sessions become crazy long and high volume. So in that case it makes sense to use different bell sizes for MP ladder days and FSQ ladder days. @Vinay Chary posted about this situation recently and had a very successful run through TTC using different sized bells.

But, by itself, the ratio doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Benjamin]

I think people put different things into the word balance.

The sources I have read, and what makes most sense to me is that there is a) a certain balance between antagonistic muscles and 2) a certain balance between upper body strength and lower body strength and 3) a balance between how much you train different muscle groups.

The stereotype of an imbalances training program would be the beach body. Strong abs, chest and biceps, and week lats, erector spinae and posterior shoulders. The other would be strong and muscular upper body and weak and unmuscular lower body.

So the way I see things, it is not that relevant what the "right" balance between kettlebell front press and kettlebell front squats. If you have huge shoulders and average legs it probably will not hurt you. And if leg strength is important to you and your shoulders are impeding your ability to hold a pair of heavy kettlebells, then you might work on pistols, weighted pistols or simply use a barbell.

***
Some of these other movements like double swings, double snatches are kind of advanced moves and if you are not very experienced in using them it will probably be more the lack of technique than the lack of strength that is holding you back from using heavier weights.

Before recently, I only had a pair of 16kg's. I now have 2 24kg, and 1 32kg. And a pull-up bar. No barbell. My training is for GPP, current goal is Simple.

So while working on S&S, I couldn't get over the hump of more than 1 set of 32kg 1 hand swings. (TGU developed on its own fairly linearly.) It was mostly my grip, so I tried different things to help that (uneven farmers, low reps of 1HSW with 32kg, pull-ups, weighted chins, higher sets of 2HSW with 32kg. Never an extreme amount that would inhibit me later, just to get some extra grip work.) It wasn't until I started TTC with 16's that I could get more than 1 set of 1HSW with 32kg. (I attributed this to renegade rows, never did them before and was able to work up to using my lone 24kg for them.)

Anyways, that led me to get a second 24kg bell to do TTC with. Which made me realize my front squat was just weak, quads specifically, no shoulder or upper back issues. My programming/training is limited to what I have regular access to, so Kbs and calisthenics. What I do outside of S&S is geared towards supporting that and improving other weaknesses. I know my 2BFS is a weakness, but since the most weight I have access to is 2 24kg's, I can only compare it to my 2BMP.

 

[Anders]

As a genereal rule: More kettlebells is always better.

***
If you want your grip to be stronger I think the things you are mentioning like farmers walk and maybe also suitcase walk are good options. You can also try holding a kettlebell with a towel wrapped around the handle to make it wider and thereby more difficult.

You can also buy captain of crushes grippers.

And you can try hanging from a pull-up bar.

Since specific training gives more bang for the bucks in general, meaning if you want to be better at one arm swings, you have to do a lot of one arm swings. You could think about buying a 28 kilo kettlebell. I don't think that is something you will regret. That is at least how I manage to reach the simple goal.

 

[Benjamin]

Naturally your front squat will/should be a bit stronger than your press because the muscle groups involved are a lot larger.
If you can double press 2x24 5x a "normal" 5 RM for front squats will be around 2x32.

"Should be" is the issue, haha. But that sounds like a comprehensible goal.