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Kettlebell Program Critique

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Ondrej Ivan

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Hello there. Some personal information for starters:
I am 26, 170cm tall, 72kg light. I have little training history, I always worked out just enough to keep myself healthy, I am not an athlete, nor do I wish to become one.

In the beginning of the year, I was on my way to Simple goal. I started compressing rest periods on my 1H Swings with 24kg and I started to introduce 24kg Get-ups (one rep L/R per workout). However, life happened and I could no longer sacrifice that much time and I ended up doing my S&S only 2 days a week. Since I started seeing little to no progress on this very modest training volume, I have eventually quit.

I decided to start working out again (so my body won't rot) and I made myself simple 3 days a week (I cannot sacrifice more than 3) training program, based on Al Ciampa's PT manual and S&S book. I constructed it to be fun, simple, included exercises that make me feel good, interesting (for me), and I would be really thankful if the community critiqued it for me.

Warm-up:
OS Resets: Segmental Rolls; 100m Crawl Progression; Rocks and Nods
Mobility with 16kg KB: Goblet Squat/Halo combo until loose; Get-up/Arm Bar combo until loose

Day 1:
OA Press (clean only once & with both hands) 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop) with 16kg-24kg
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Suitcase Carry

Day 2:
Goblet Squat 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop) or TGU 1x-5x with 16kg-24kg
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Rack Carry

Day 3:
Tactical Pull-up 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop)
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Waiter Carry

Cool-down:
Hang on a bar
90/90 stretch
Brettzel

This is it. Simple, all patterns, time economical. Upgrade ideas or pointing out mistakes and my stupidity is all appreciated.
 
Is this program based on what you can do currently? You may need to find your baseline capability first by just train based on minimum plan and then add subtract from there.
The one arm press looks a bit too much , as well as tactical pull-up unless you have done a lot of these.
 
Thank you for your reply! I definitely have a baseline. I tested OA Press with 16kg and put up 5 comfortable reps + 2 with a little struggle. 100m Crawl, I agree, is definitely a lot. It is ment to be a goal to work towards, I dont' plan to start with more than 20m with a baby crawl, maybe even less. Tactical Pull-ups are no problem for me, Pull-ups is something I have been doing a lot of since child-hood and I can currently do 4 comfortable reps with long pauses at the top (neck touching the bar).

Your comment made me think about the Get-up/Arm Bar combo though. 16kg might prove too much for a warm-up. I might do the get-up part with a shoe or a cup and then grab a bell for Arm Bar.

Do you maybe think, that Arm Bar AND Halo in single warm-up is a bit of a overkill? Thy both work shoulders after all...
 
Ondrej Ivan said:
Hello there. Some personal information for starters:
I am 26, 170cm tall, 72kg light. I have little training history, I always worked out just enough to keep myself healthy, I am not an athlete, nor do I wish to become one.

In the beginning of the year, I was on my way to Simple goal. I started compressing rest periods on my 1H Swings with 24kg and I started to introduce 24kg Get-ups (one rep L/R per workout). However, life happened and I could no longer sacrifice that much time and I ended up doing my S&S only 2 days a week. Since I started seeing little to no progress on this very modest training volume, I have eventually quit.

I decided to start working out again (so my body won't rot) and I made myself simple 3 days a week (I cannot sacrifice more than 3) training program, based on Al Ciampa's PT manual and S&S book. I constructed it to be fun, simple, included exercises that make me feel good, interesting (for me), and I would be really thankful if the community critiqued it for me.

Warm-up:
OS Resets: Segmental Rolls; 100m Crawl Progression; Rocks and Nods
Mobility with 16kg KB: Goblet Squat/Halo combo until loose; Get-up/Arm Bar combo until loose

Day 1:
OA Press (clean only once & with both hands) 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop) with 16kg-24kg
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Suitcase Carry

Day 2:
Goblet Squat 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop) or TGU 1x-5x with 16kg-24kg
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Rack Carry

Day 3:
Tactical Pull-up 15x-25x (sets to comfortable stop)
2H Swings (pop & float) 5x10 (eventually 10x10) with 24kg
Waiter Carry

Cool-down:
Hang on a bar
90/90 stretch
Brettzel

This is it. Simple, all patterns, time economical. Upgrade ideas or pointing out mistakes and my stupidity is all appreciated.
Click to expand...

There is some research that says that higher frequency will get more results (possible exception of the barbell deadlift). I would keep the swings and TGUs and carries but rotate the squats or pullups (and presses) in cycles of 6 weeks or so (up to 3 months if you can stand the repetition). When you start to plateau, after a week switch to the next main movement. Then when you come back to it, your baseline will be higher. I always get better with higher frequency. You can and often should wave over the three days, with a heavy, medium, and lighter day. I don't think you will make a lot of progress with pullups once a week for example. I do one set to almost failure almost daily.

The minimal number of exercises in most Strongfirst programs is a key factor in progress I think.

I really like how you have a finisher of carries every time. I do as well and it makes for great progress, especially combined with TGUs. You could go from waiter, to racked, to carry with the same weight as you tire as Gray cook suggests. That would give you more progression variables and increase practice.

I think that the key to real progress is to push your capacity to tolerate training boredom as much as you can stand with consistent work, varying load rather than exercises.
 
Oh, I see. That is a good point. So you would suggest to keep everything in place, but when it comes to Goblets, OA Presses, and Pull-ups, only do one exercise per 6 week cycle (or more) and have Medium - Light - Heavy days? That would probably mean Ladders for Pull-ups and Presses (like in RoP), and load waves for Goblets?

i.e.
for OA Press and Tactical Pull-up:
Medium day: (heavy day minus one rung)
Easy day: (heavy day minus two rungs)
Heavy day: 3x(1-3), then work-up to 3x(1-5), then work-up to 5x(1-5), then add weight

for Goblets (roughly):
Medium day: 16kg, 3x5
Easy day: bodyweight squat, 5x8
Heavy day: 24kg, 3x3
when this gets too easy, add weight.

Thanks for the reply BTW.
 
guardian7 said:
There is some research that says that higher frequency will get more results (possible exception of the barbell deadlift).
Click to expand...
PTTP and the Daily Dose Deadlift are both high frequency programs of barbell deadlifts.

High frequency programs must keep the daily volume low. I very much like the Easy Strength guideline of 6-10 lifts per day, done almost every day. Indeed, one can extrapolate and say that 2 lifts done in this manner allow one to still practice hard on the sports field or in the dojo, while 5 lifts constitute a solid program that can stand on its own.

-S-
 
Ondrej Ivan said:
Your comment made me think about the Get-up/Arm Bar combo though. 16kg might prove too much for a warm-up. I might do the get-up part with a shoe or a cup and then grab a bell for Arm Bar.

Do you maybe think, that Arm Bar AND Halo in single warm-up is a bit of a overkill? Thy both work shoulders after all...
Click to expand...

Pressing weight and warmup weight for Halo and armbar being the same 16kg is a bit too much. If it generates tension in your shoulder, then most likely heavy dosage will defeat the purpose. At the instructor's certification, it's typical to use 12kg even for males who can press 40kg or more.

If you don't have a small kettlebell, crush the basketball or something smaller and circulate around your head. Mini dumbell is not the best but works moderately for arm bars and getups.

I personally don't "schedule" warmups. Probably few swings and getups preceding heavy works but crawling and other stuffs I may use between sets.

I have them as tool and find time to do those other than my training time. As long as I'm home, there's bits and pieces of time to do the so called warm up here and there. My doctrine is to do non-heavy works throughout the day when I'm awake and not lifting heavy.
 
This has been all very valuable information, thank you all very much.

If I eliminate warm-ups and cool-downs, I will probably be able to squeeze daily Swings and Get-ups in the evening at least 4 days a week, sometimes 5, and essentially follow the S&S again. I will drop Presses completely. I will do Goblet Squats, Arm Bars (or Halos) and some Pull-ups in the morning before breakfast. Doing OS resets between sets seems like a great idea. I tested it with TGUs and Segmental Rolls last night and it felt amazing.

taikei said:
Pressing weight and warmup weight for Halo and armbar being the same 16kg is a bit too much. If it generates tension in your shoulder, then most likely heavy dosage will defeat the purpose. At the instructor's certification, it's typical to use 12kg even for males who can press 40kg or more.

If you don't have a small kettlebell, crush the basketball or something smaller and circulate around your head. Mini dumbell is not the best but works moderately for arm bars and getups.
Click to expand...

Do you think some big a#@ book would work instead of basketball for Halos? I might consider purchasing 12kg KB.
 
Before anything, you forgot to mention your goal...

that will help us give better answers..
 
Mark Limbaga said:
Before anything, you forgot to mention your goal...

that will help us give better answers..
Click to expand...

True. My goal is to keep myself healthy strong and learn the basic moves better (Swing, Squat, Get-up, Press, Pull-up). My job requires a lot of sitting for a long time so I'm trying to keep the training short, simple, and on point.

I've also developed very stiff Thoracic Spine and I've been feeling it lately. Lots of knots between my shoulder blades. That's why I'm pushing through all those Halos, Arm Bars, and Segmental Rolls. These exercises are making me feel much better. I have been preemptively stretching my hip flexors and have no issues there.

As I said before, I can't sacrifice much time... 15m in the morning tops. 45 minutes in the evening 2 days per week. 20-30min in the evening another 2 days per week. Free Sundays with family.

My dreams are, that my schedule will become more free in the future and I will be able to take strength training more seriously. It would be nice if I had the basics dialed in at that point.
 
What I would do..

Use the simply sinister training plan so you don't consume much time and work on your previous goal as well..

Other days, you can practice presses and other moves...

Have you considered seeing an SFG near you?
 
Ondrej Ivan said:
Oh, I see. That is a good point. So you would suggest to keep everything in place, but when it comes to Goblets, OA Presses, and Pull-ups, only do one exercise per 6 week cycle (or more) and have Medium - Light - Heavy days? That would probably mean Ladders for Pull-ups and Presses (like in RoP), and load waves for Goblets?

i.e.
for OA Press and Tactical Pull-up:
Medium day: (heavy day minus one rung)
Easy day: (heavy day minus two rungs)
Heavy day: 3x(1-3), then work-up to 3x(1-5), then work-up to 5x(1-5), then add weight

for Goblets (roughly):
Medium day: 16kg, 3x5
Easy day: bodyweight squat, 5x8
Heavy day: 24kg, 3x3
when this gets too easy, add weight.

Thanks for the reply BTW.
Click to expand...

Basically, yes. There are many programs to use on this site. As Steve F. says below, as long as you limit the volume, we can do much higher frequency than people think. S&S is based on this idea. Basically, pick one lift you really want to improve in and do it three times a week (or even more). This does not prevent you from doing S&S or other supplementary work or doing martial arts or whatever.
 
Steve Freides said:
PTTP and the Daily Dose Deadlift are both high frequency programs of barbell deadlifts.

High frequency programs must keep the daily volume low. I very much like the Easy Strength guideline of 6-10 lifts per day, done almost every day. Indeed, one can extrapolate and say that 2 lifts done in this manner allow one to still practice hard on the sports field or in the dojo, while 5 lifts constitute a solid program that can stand on its own.

-S-
Click to expand...

guardian7 said:
Basically, yes. There are many programs to use on this site from those more expert than me. Don't reinvent the wheel. As Steve F. says below, as long as you limit the volume, we can do much higher frequency than people think. S&S is based on this idea. Basically, pick one lift you really want to improve in and do it three times a week (or even more) whether straight sets or waving. This does not prevent you from doing S&S or other supplementary work or doing martial arts or whatever.
Click to expand...

By the way, there is some recent research that calls into question the accepted wisdom that there is a 48 hour muscle building window for muscle repair. Basically, the body is continually repairing itself. The key is whether your performance is suffering or not in subsequent workout. Sorry, don't have a source handy but it makes sense in biological terms.
 
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