Kettlebell Program for cyclist with sore legs!

[Dayz]

Hey all - my 2019 planning is already getting derailed. I am an avid cyclist and that is the focus. I ride at least 5x per week, often twice per day as I ride to and from work. It's about 6-8 hours of riding during the working week, plus a long weekend ride of 3-6 hours. I'm planning to race in the future as well as travel overseas on some riding trips - so riding is 100% my focus.

I hoped to pursue/maintain strength too using S&S, however the swings feel like wayyyy too much for my legs, which are already sore from riding. I can one hand swing the 32 and two hand swing the 40, but that compromises my recovery for the next ride. My legs are constantly sore, so when a non riding day comes up, I generally feel like a rest day. The stretch of the hamstrings with the swing is too much.

I'm doing original strength resets daily (haven't missed a day this year), as well as foam rolling and cold showers for recovery.

Maybe I just need to wait for my legs to adjust to the workload so I can swing on non ride days, but it's been a few weeks of this schedule now.

Can anyone recommend anything? Drop to the 24? Switch programs to something press focused and keep lower body light? Maybe a clean and press program? Sorry for the rambling thread - I'm just lost for ideas!

 

[Bret S.]

How to Get Better at Everything by Training Multiple Get-Ups | StrongFirst

 

[Anna C]

Hi @Dayz ! I'm an avid cyclist, too, but these days wishfully. 6-8 yrs ago I rode almost that much, but I only ride once a week these past few years.

Your legs being "constantly sore" makes me wonder if you're not giving yourself enough recovery from riding, apart from adding any kettlebells! Are you "training" on the bike (i.e. designated zone 2/LSD rides, tempo rides, interval rides), or just riding a lot?

My thought would be do do your kettlebell as "practice" not so much as "training" and do an S&S lite. S&S warm-up of goblet squats, halos, and hip bridges, then maybe 10 sets of 5 swings only -- I'd say with the 32, not dropping the 24, because you need the strength/power more than the conditioning -- and maybe 3 get-ups per side with an easy weight and just practice the tension, good movement, and graceful transitions. If you can do this 3 days per week you will get some benefit out of it.

But also I might ask, what is it that you'd like to get out of it?

 

[Manuel Fortin]

I was also an avid cyclist from 15 to 35 (now closing on 48). I never competed, but could hang on in group rides with entry level competitors. If you want to train 9-14 hours a week, you really need to build up to the volume and have a lot of "easy" rides. Having a time trial twice a day during your commute will fry you. Do you have more details? How old are you? How long have you been cycling? How well trained are you? Is the commuting part new? How fast are you rolling while commuting? Is it in stop and go traffic, or mostly open roads? What type of ride do you do on the weekend (group ride, by yourself)? What type of racing do you want to do? I did not do any strength training during the cycling season (I'm from Canada, so that was about 6 months a year), only over the winter, along with cross-country skiing and swimming. Even then, each spring I took at least 6-8weeks to get back to "full" volume.

Without knowing all the details, it's hard to formulate a plan, but strategies to build up the volume include using another means of transportation a few times a week, or if possible, commuting only one way each day (Mo morning, ride, Mo evening, Tu morning, use public transportation, Tu evening, ride, ...etc...), at least until you adapt. The year I had a long commute, I cycled to work and back only 3 times a week, for a total of about 7 hours, and did my long ride (3 hours or so) over the weekend.

Optimizing efficiency during your commute will also get you to work faster with less effort. If you carry something, aerodynamics is very important.

You can for sure ride 6 times a week, but that will require adaptation, and may not be an optimal training plan, unless you can make some days very easy. In my riding days, most programs had 3-5 days of training. For the 5 days ones, one day was an easy recovery day, typically after your long ride. Some people ride almost every day, but they are often not the fastest ones. As to adding kettlebell swings to all that riding, I'm not sure it's the most efficient way to achieve your goals.

 

[vegpedlr]

Another cyclist here. It sounds like you answered your own questions. If you’re cooked, you’ve done too much, period.

Too much intensity, too much volume, or both, of S&S.
Too much intensity, too much volume, or both, on the bike.

Something has to give, and your goals determine what that is. You state that cycling, is the priority, so logic dictates that you back off the S&S, either in frequency, or with a lighter KB.

OTOH, if your following a periodized approach, maybe you let the riding go for a awhile to focus on strength, then rearrange it in the spring. That is my approach. My focus since Nov. has been in the gym, with minimal running and cycling just to maintain my base. In 6 wks, I will switch that and build volume.

On a side note, interesting that swings interfere with your legs. I have the opposite experience. Swings and the DL don’t interfere with running or cycling for me, but squats really do. So I save the SQ for winter to reap its benefits and hinge the rest of the year.

 

[offwidth]

I also have cycled a bit... (road racing, cyclocross, MTB, commuting)
I concur with most of the advice and comments given here.

What I see in most people's cycling is this:

• Too many hard effort days
• The easy days aren't easy enough
• The hard days aren't hard enough

Periodization is your friend...

Weight train and do ancillary stuff in the off season, along with 'some' cycling. In cycling season ride...

Depends on what your goals are. Like everything else, if you want to get good (I mean really good) at something, then you need to focus pretty intently on that.

 

[Dayz]

Hi all - I'm on my phone here so I won't quote everyone, but similar themes. Indeed I've probably added too much volume too quickly. I was previously running 6 days per week at 60-70km per week. I had no issues with soreness then, but obviously my body was more accustomed to running than riding.

My riding is all "easy", just accumulating miles. No hard, fast riding or intervals, just "base building".

I'll give it more time and back off on SS for now. Thanks all!

 

[watchnerd]

I hoped to pursue/maintain strength too using S&S, however the swings feel like wayyyy too much for my legs, which are already sore from riding. I can one hand swing the 32 and two hand swing the 40, but that compromises my recovery for the next ride. My legs are constantly sore, so when a non riding day comes up, I generally feel like a rest day. The stretch of the hamstrings with the swing is too much.

I curious why one would pick S&S as a strength & conditioning program if one's goal is to improve cycling?

Or are your goals completely separate from cycling?

 

[watchnerd]

On a side note, interesting that swings interfere with your legs. I have the opposite experience. Swings and the DL don’t interfere with running or cycling for me, but squats really do. So I save the SQ for winter to reap its benefits and hinge the rest of the year.

Well, yeah, that makes complete sense....squats use way more quads than swings or DLs, which are far more posterior chain oriented.

And cycling and running are pretty quad dominant.

 

[Dayz]

Hi - I'm using SS as a general strength program because I want to be a useful human. My cycling improvements will come from cycling. If I ever feel the need I can switch to a cycling specific strength routine. For now, more time on the bike is the key

 

[Bauer]

I am not a cyclist but as others have posted, I think you need to back off to progress.

Listen to the SF podcast with Peter Park, as he trained Lance Armstrong, that should give you an idea.

If memory serves right, ultra marathon legend Scott Jurek hibernates in winter, taking 4-8 weeks with no running at all! Just some Yoga and rest with family and friends.

So backing off to recover and building a base seems to be a necessity rather than luxury.

Anyway good luck with finding that balance.

 

[Tobias Wissmueller]

Since a bit over a year now I am commuting by bike which gives me around 100km of fresh air and movement during a normal work week.

Plus a couple of time S&S which can differ between 2 to 4 sessions a week depending on time and how much sleep I get.

At first I was riding a trekking bike which, especially in the winter, left me tired after Tuesday. The studded tires were too much. Everything was too much.

Since July I am riding a pedal-assist full-suspension enduro MTB with 2.8 inch tires. This thing is like a tracktor but rides like a cyclocross and it is giving me the full range of going very easy on the legs to whatever I want to.

Especially now in the winter I use 3 inch studded tires in the front and 2.8 mud tires on the rear and it still rides like a cyclocross. A very comfortable cyclocross though because of the suspension.

My strategy of offsetting all the weight, rolling resistance and adding more flexibility on how intensive or light I want to go absolutely worked for me by using a pedal-assist bike.

There is one caveat though. I needed to learn to shut my ears about the discussions of how these are no real bikes, about cheating and so on. Some strange looks and comments at traffic lights from time to time. Usually this comes from people who never used a bike like this and certainly were not doing 100 swings and 10 getups before their morning commute.

It worked for me though and I wouldn’t want to ride anything else for now, because it lets me continue doing what I want to do. It even helps my recovery.

 

[offwidth]

Hi all - I'm on my phone here so I won't quote everyone, but similar themes. Indeed I've probably added too much volume too quickly. I was previously running 6 days per week at 60-70km per week. I had no issues with soreness then, but obviously my body was more accustomed to running than riding.

My riding is all "easy", just accumulating miles. No hard, fast riding or intervals, just "base building".

I'll give it more time and back off on SS for now. Thanks all!

Many of the 'good' cyclists I ride with log over 15,000km a year.

The 'pros' often much more... consider that Chris Froome has already ridden over 1,300km in the first 11 days of this year. (Including some respectable climbs)

 

[Brookes]

There is one caveat though. I needed to learn to shut my ears about the discussions of how these are no real bikes, about cheating and so on.

Funny thing is, all the pro mountainbikers use ebikes for their training, since it allows them a constant heart rate and also more technical training time on the trails. I can´t see me on one right now but this has more to do with the weight of the beasts. They don´t fit my "lightfooted" riding style since they feel more like a tank.

 

[vegpedlr]

For commuting, ebikes makes sense. Anything that gets people out of cars.

For sport, nope, sorry. Cycling is based on the premise that the rider is the engine. Otherwise, just get a moto.

OP, running and cycling are similar, have carry over, but are not the same thing. So some of the soreness can be adjustment to the new activity. Back off and proceed more slowly.

 

[Snowman]

At first I was riding a trekking bike which, especially in the winter, left me tired after Tuesday. The studded tires were too much. Everything was too much.

it is giving me the full range of going very easy on the legs to whatever I want to.

Smart. Too often people can let their pride keep them from taking the wise route, and the wheels fall off (figuratively speaking ). Better to be smart and consistent than briefly impressive.
Same reasoning goes for dropping volume or intensity when it's appropriate for recovery and long-term goals. So often we see taking an appropriate step back as a miniature failure, and end up torpedoing our performance in the long run because we let our training be dictated by our pride rather than our abilities.

 

[Manuel Fortin]

What I see in most people's cycling is this:

• Too many hard effort days
• The easy days aren't easy enough
• The hard days aren't hard enough

That. +1, +2, +1000.

Hi all - I'm on my phone here so I won't quote everyone, but similar themes. Indeed I've probably added too much volume too quickly. I was previously running 6 days per week at 60-70km per week. I had no issues with soreness then, but obviously my body was more accustomed to running than riding.

I did the opposite transition 13 years ago. I was able to log 5000 miles in 6 months (summer here in Canada) each of the last few years I cycled. I was also relatively fast. Not elite, but I could ride in small groups of 6-10 at 25-27 mph sustained for 1-2 hours. At 35, I had gotten cycling out of my system and switched to rugby (probably one of the weirdest sport transition you have heard about...) where I had to run. Despite being a fit cyclist, I was not able to run for long periods (either as base training or while doing the sport) without being extremely sore. Both running and cycling use the legs, but they do so in very different manners. Sorry to break the bad news, but to get to the equivalent of your running shape on the bike will take a long time. If you were a very fit runner, it may be a question of years even.

For example, Lance Armstrong run his first marathon in 3 hours. Forget about all the doping, etc,... even unassisted, he would have smoked almost everyone in the world on a bike. Yet, he posted a respectable marathon time, but nothing anywhere close to elite level.

My riding is all "easy", just accumulating miles. No hard, fast riding or intervals, just "base building".

It's very easy to trick ourselves on the bike. Could you hold a conversation while riding? If not, you are not doing "base building". Try it. Sing something for a minute or two and see how it goes, or count your heart beats for 10 seconds and multiply by 6 when you wait at a traffic light, and see how hard you were really pushing. You will also have to build your legs slower. Suddenly riding your bike 10 hours a week will be too much. A good rule of thumb is to increase mileage about 10% a week.

Also, if you want to race, I suggest to join a club, even a recreational one. Riding in a group is very different from riding alone. Even if you want to do time trials, I found group riding is a very efficient way to train. Most of the time you are not the first one in front, and therefore are not pushing too much. When you get in front, you are anaerobic for a short period. This is a very efficient manner of improving aerobic capacity. See for example the whole A+A thread on the forum. This is a bit different, but it's like built in intervals, without the boredom. When I joined a club, my fitness level increased a lot.

 

[Richm76]

I’m a mountain biker, I seem to remember from a long time ago Pavel recommending that you shouldn’t deadlift after cycling deadlift before riding is okay. Cycling often puts you in position where you’ll get tight hips which may give you some lower back pain. Can you video your swings? It may be that your using your quads more than you think to swing. I also recommend using a heart rate monitor as your probably going harder than you think in every ride and not recovering well enough.

 

[Dayz]

Thank you. Great response. I can confirm I'm a huge nerd when it comes to training modalities for running, and I've transferred that over to cycling. I have a bike computer and heart rate monitor. I'm keeping my heart rate in the correct aerobic zones and my cadence around 90, which means I'm pedalling nice and easy.

The main issue I think is just my legs, which I need to build as you say. The muscles are definitely used differently and the concentric/ eccentric contractions are noticeably different.

Thanks again!

 

[Steve Freides]

@Dayz, I have a simple recommendation - low-rep strength training, not S&S, to go with all the cycling you do. A few heavy deadlifts once or twice a week done before you ride, and when the ride to follow will be easy. Or squats. Or swings, even, just keep everything short and intense, and save training volume for the bike where, for you, it belongs.

It's important that your off-the-bike training _add_ to your overall health and well-being, not take away from it, and being sore a lot is no fun for anyone.

-S-