Kettlebell Program Hopping

[conor78]

I’ve been listening to Tim Almond podcasts (although he’s not active on SM currently) recently and they are very helpful if you want some encouragement about sticking to the path. Tim talks about I think the phrase was “singularity of purpose” and he was pushing the envelope in terms of what you could wring out from the hardstyle snatch. The results were impressive. He introduced a “scratch the itch” day in his gym every 3 weeks to allow people to play around with other movements, maces, clubs etc. I used this approach when running the King Sized Killer. Every 3rd Sunday basically a variety day and then I would write out my weeks training in advance to keep me accountable. I found it worked well.
Good luck with your training..

 

[rwleonard]

Tim talks about I think the phrase was “singularity of purpose”

Very John Wick.

 

[Anna C]

I'm late with the input, and plenty of great advice above, but a few thoughts:

- Whether you have "huge problem" with program hopping is all in the perception about the implications. Is it really a problem? Perhaps try to describe to yourself why it's a problem. Not in the moral "lack of discipline" sense -- but, what is the cost? "I don't train as consistently as I think I would on a program", or "I don't reach the goals I set for myself" or "I don't seem to be making progress towards the changes I want" or "I don't learn the lessons that other people seem to learn who stick with a program for a while", etc.

- If you could quantify your strength and fitness:

• A - where you are
• B - where you think you could be, or should be, if you followed programs, etc.
• C - where you WANT to be

How far is the distance from A to B? What about from A to C? If B and C are not the same, maybe explore that a bit...

Beyond that, I'd use the "5 whys" to drill into whatever you want to get to the root of. Ask the first question "why don't I stick to a program?", then whatever the answer is, ask why to that ("because I think I might be missing something. Why do I think I might be missing something?". Keep going until you "reveal" something to yourself.

 

[Halfakneecap]

If you know you are prone to do that, maybe pick a program that only lasts for 4 weeks. Many of Geoff’s programs in Kettlebell Express says something to the effect of, “After 4 weeks, move on.” They are not designed to last forever like S&S, so they’re already more like how you operate.

This is great advice. I have Strong, the giant and KB ultra. So many different 4 week programs in Ultra. Some can be conditioning based, some are strength. Never get bored

I think switching things up over the year is better for me than sticking to the same. I don’t have specific goals though.

 

[North Coast Miller]

@Adam R Mundorf

You could also do more or less what I have done for years now and steal a page from Maxwell’s playbook. His concept of balancing push,pull,hinge,squat with plug in swappable exercises or set/rep schemes has served me well.

Honestly, the miscellaneous information I gleaned from him at my KB cert and the accompanying literature was worth (to me) far more than the KB specific instruction.

It doesn’t matter if I’m doing offset weighted pole with pyramids, clusters with sandbag, isometrics on a barbell facsimile, everything I do is based on the same basic template tweaked to favor whatever my highest priority goal is currently.

Worst case, adapt the load/set/rep scheme from an existing program and follow the deloads- apply your own modes and exercise selection.

Above all, identify a primary adaptive response and target that with your training.

 

[Sean M]

I call it “program grazing” when I don’t have a particular goal and just want to get a feel for different programs/protocols. When I commit to a program, I usually have a “scratch the itch” day where I do as much of the list as I still feel like on the day after the light(est) day.

 

[Conor]

I’m a big fan of the 12ish week blocks. But I have a tendency to go all on in something for a few months, then never do it again. So I have the same boredom problem, it’s just over slightly longer cycles. It helps me to have a goal, as many have suggested.

 

[oab]

It comes down to goals - health, longevity, fitness\performance, sport, entertainment\fun. The program must reflect the goals. A GPP program like S&S is a good place to start but you may have to add in some entertainment\fun days. The main thing is to make sure that the entertainment fun days don't become your sole goal if you want the others to be met as well. So, S&S 2-3 days a week and the other 2 days are your entertainment fun days. Like others have said maybe try and get push, pull, hinge, squat, abs\carry and gait elements into these entertainment days, for reasons of balance. Another approach is to use one of those roll the dice type approaches. Pavel had one for ETK that I think was published in MILO and Q&D has some suggestions. Just ideas to consider.

Keep the program simple so you can modify the scheme as you go along eg if tired or you need to deload. Also, have a backup plan if life becomes extra taxing eg for S&S TGUs down to lower KB and 2H swings with number sets cut if necessary. Similar for your variety\fun\entertainment days, if too much drop them or have a base template to "fall back" too. Backup plans help the habit keep going and this helps to avoid habbit deterioration and unwitting slippage off the program.

 

[Adam R Mundorf]

Oftentimes something else in my life isn't going exactly how I want it and I think a complete change in direction will fix it, but in reality I'm just walking in a circle being left right where I began. It's like the 'Wheel of Pain' from Conan.

The program minimum gets results but lack of consistency doesn't and never will. Nothing is missing from Simple and Sinister :

We have mobility squats with curls, hip bridges, loaded shoulder mobility. We have an explosive hip hinge/pull. We have an isometric press that takes you through all ranges of motion plus a floor press. We have a hip/lower back stretch and a straddle with QL emphasis. Then to wrap it up we hang from a pull up bar working our grip and decompressing our spine. Once or twice a month we test ourselves in non S&S activities, to challenge the body.

Done 5 to 6 times a week with smart progression - How could this not make one stronger and more capable?

 

[Sauli]

I switch programs every 4-6 weeks. But technically it isn't hopping because I'll finish program before starting another. It seems to work, but possibly slower than long term programs.
Moving pieces for me seems to be that I'll rotate band resisted push ups and presses and pull ups and swings each 4-6 week block.. goblet squats are always part of warm up, some carries and currently also some yoga movements... but main dishes are push and pull/hinge.

 

[Hung]

Training is both art and science, and health benefit is both mentally and physically. A great part of reason I train is to keep me sane - instead of having a beer or play video game or other entertainment I train to keep my mind relax. Which brings me to "program hopping" because I want to experiment different style of training. It's probably make me progress slower like Kenny said but it's a very small price that I have accepted.
I don't think forcing yourself into a single training protocol is good unless you have a special reason, like you're trying to be more discipline or something. Keep the training principal of SnS but don't be guilty to change here and there with swing and get up.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I switch programs every 4-6 weeks.

Periodization Training

This is one component of Periodization Training.

 

[Anna C]

Done 5 to 6 times a week with smart progression - How could this not make one stronger and more capable?

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself, as the cure for wanting to program hop. So, perhaps you are not convinced it is the right thing to be doing.

A thought experiment -- there are no right answers, but just as an exercise to explore your own perceptions and beliefs:

If 100 people actually do S&S for 6 months, and do it well (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution):

• How many will get the results they wanted?
• How many will get "good" results, but a little different than what they expected?
• How many will get "good" results by program standards, but will nonetheless be dissatisfied and think they would have been better off to do something else?
• How many will get no results at all, or negative results (a net loss of other strengths or physical attributes, pain/problems, etc.)?
• Which category do you believe you would be in?

And further:

• How would the numbers change for any other program other than S&S?
• What would change in the above numbers if they don't "do it well" (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution)? How important is each of these factors ? How confident are you that you are "doing it well"?
• How many people in each of the above groups would start doing the program, but stop or stutter for some reason if they were free to make the choice along the way? What group would those people likely have belonged to if they had kept after it?

Like I said, there are no right or wrong answers... I could give MY answers but they're no more right or wrong than yours, without objective experiments. However, just attempting to answer them might help objectively get to your lack of confidence that this is the right thing to be doing.

And one last thing, to bring it down to earth... how confident am I, are you, is anyone -- that S&S (or any other program) is the right thing to be doing? It depends on a lot of factors. But like most things in life (marriage, job, college, parenting, travelling), if you pick something good, dedicate yourself to it, do your best and learn along the way, you'll get good results, even if it's not the perfect thing. "Perfect is the enemy of good." - Voltaire.

 

[BrianCF]

The problem with ROP and S+S is there is no time commitment so it feels like you'll be doing it forever. After2-3 month of this a lot of workouts seem like the movie Groundhog Day. Same thing, week after week.

For a lot of us, the goal should be just showing up and doing the work. When we were kids, did you set goals when you played games with other kids? At 10, was your goal to score 10 goals in a season? Probably not.

There is nothing wrong for a time period without a program. You know what you need to do. Set the clock for 30 minutes, do some swings, presses, squats whatever you fancy. Bring your bell to a track or a park, do a set of something and sprint 100 yards. Walk back and repeat.

If you're going to do programs, 4-6 weeks is enough and then switch.

 

[offwidth]

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself, as the cure for wanting to program hop. So, perhaps you are not convinced it is the right thing to be doing.

A thought experiment -- there are no right answers, but just as an exercise to explore your own perceptions and beliefs:

If 100 people actually do S&S for 6 months, and do it well (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution):

• How many will get the results they wanted?
• How many will get "good" results, but a little different than what they expected?
• How many will get "good" results by program standards, but will nonetheless be dissatisfied and think they would have been better off to do something else?
• How many will get no results at all, or negative results (a net loss of other strengths or physical attributes, pain/problems, etc.)?
• Which category do you believe you would be in?

And further:

• How would the numbers change for any other program other than S&S?
• What would change in the above numbers if they don't "do it well" (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution)? How important is each of these factors ? How confident are you that you are "doing it well"?
• How many people in each of the above groups would start doing the program, but stop or stutter for some reason if they were free to make the choice along the way? What group would those people likely have belonged to if they had kept after it?

Like I said, there are no right or wrong answers... I could give MY answers but they're no more right or wrong than yours, without objective experiments. However, just attempting to answer them might help objectively get to your lack of confidence that this is the right thing to be doing.

And one last thing, to bring it down to earth... how confident am I, are you, is anyone -- that S&S (or any other program) is the right thing to be doing? It depends on a lot of factors. But like most things in life (marriage, job, college, parenting, travelling), if you pick something good, dedicate yourself to it, do your best and learn along the way, you'll get good results, even if it's not the perfect thing. "Perfect is the enemy of good." - Voltaire.

Well said Anna (as usual)

 

[Adam R Mundorf]

You sound like you're trying to convince yourself, as the cure for wanting to program hop. So, perhaps you are not convinced it is the right thing to be doing.

A thought experiment -- there are no right answers, but just as an exercise to explore your own perceptions and beliefs:

If 100 people actually do S&S for 6 months, and do it well (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution):

• How many will get the results they wanted?
• How many will get "good" results, but a little different than what they expected?
• How many will get "good" results by program standards, but will nonetheless be dissatisfied and think they would have been better off to do something else?
• How many will get no results at all, or negative results (a net loss of other strengths or physical attributes, pain/problems, etc.)?
• Which category do you believe you would be in?

And further:

• How would the numbers change for any other program other than S&S?
• What would change in the above numbers if they don't "do it well" (appropriate load, SFG-approved form, and by the book session and program execution)? How important is each of these factors ? How confident are you that you are "doing it well"?
• How many people in each of the above groups would start doing the program, but stop or stutter for some reason if they were free to make the choice along the way? What group would those people likely have belonged to if they had kept after it?

Like I said, there are no right or wrong answers... I could give MY answers but they're no more right or wrong than yours, without objective experiments. However, just attempting to answer them might help objectively get to your lack of confidence that this is the right thing to be doing.

And one last thing, to bring it down to earth... how confident am I, are you, is anyone -- that S&S (or any other program) is the right thing to be doing? It depends on a lot of factors. But like most things in life (marriage, job, college, parenting, travelling), if you pick something good, dedicate yourself to it, do your best and learn along the way, you'll get good results, even if it's not the perfect thing. "Perfect is the enemy of good." - Voltaire.

Thank you for the thoughtful response Anna.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

A few more ideas:

Why not define some short term goals of yours? That way you can focus on them like a hawk and then have other things to do that will help scratch the itch so to speak .

I'm also an advocate of "organized chaos" but you also need to have a rough draft in your head so you can make the adjustments on the fly

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

For people who really are "goalless", there's nothing wrong with program hopping - in my mind it shouldn't be considered a problem at all. If you are really goalless, do whatever brings you joy on a particular day - any 30 minutes spent lifting a kettlebell in any shape or form is better than 30 minutes spend swiping through social media.

I think many goalless people aren't actually being honest with themselves - they do have goals, they're just are unable to quantify them. They want to be "better", whatever that means. When you actually have a goal, a program has to show progress. Granted, you have to give a program enough time to have a chance of working, but if at the end of some interval you aren't able to see some flavor of measurable progress, the hopping is probably the right answer - doing the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

So, as many others here have said, I think defining your actual goals probably has to be step #1.

Past that, I think you have to find a way to measure progress. Of course, folks who compete in a sport measure progress by performance in that sport. For those without a sport... for S&S, progress can be swapping in the heavier bell for another set every couple of weeks. For ROP, it's hitting the ever-increasing volume targets week after week. For PTTP, it's hitting a new 5RM every few weeks. And when you hit that week where you are unable to make progress, that's the clear indicator that it's time to step back and switch it up - either by backing down a few steps and restarting, or hopping to a new program.

People with goals - ever if they aren't willing/able to define them - need to be able to measure progress, or they will never be happy.

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

I think we’re all guilty of that at times. I had a huge issue with it. I think it comes down firstly to having a specific goal. Sometimes our goals collide or/are contraindicated. Narrowing or simplifying the end makes it easier to justify the means and Russ you of excess or distraction.

When your goal is clear, it becomes much simpler and everything you do has a purpose. Training becomes focused. Once you reach your goal, however, the period following it (off season) becomes a good time to tinker abs re-evaluate your future plans. So ask yourself. What do I wish to gain from my trainin

Personally, I don't think in terms of performance goals, or programs as means to reach them. I just think in terms of what I want to do, not what I want to gain or achieve apart from that.

So my goal becomes to do the program I choose to do, and when I do the program I achieve my goal.

Let’s delve into this because I find the topic stimulating.

Perhaps I shall replace the word with goals with reason. What is the reason for doing any program? And what is the reason for constantly changing?

Actions can be performed with no end goal in themselves. Goals can distract from enjoying the process, just as in anticipating reaching a mountains peak can distract a hiker from admiring the views. You don’t have to have goals if you’re playing a pickup soccer game for fun (pun intended), although…one can argue that fun is the goal.

If you’re doing a program to finish the program, well I still see that as a goal, whatever way it may be worded.

However, it is hard to justify any action without reason…

 

[Steve W.]

Let’s delve into this because I find the topic stimulating.

Perhaps I shall replace the word with goals with reason. What is the reason for doing any program? And what is the reason for constantly changing?

Actions can be performed with no end goal in themselves. Goals can distract from enjoying the process, just as in anticipating reaching a mountains peak can distract a hiker from admiring the views. You don’t have to have goals if you’re playing a pickup soccer game for fun (pun intended), although…one can argue that fun is the goal.

If you’re doing a program to finish the program, well I still see that as a goal, whatever way it may be worded.

However, it is hard to justify any action without reason…

This is why I specified "performance goals" (a specific result of the program), rather than just "goals," which could include very general reasons.

I don't think it's bad to have goals in any sense, and I certainly think it's good to have a purpose. But I often see on this forum an assumption that having specific performance goals is necessary or important for effective programming or training ("What are your goals?"), so I was pushing back against that assumption.