Other/Mixed Programming anxiety/increasing overhead strength??

[bluejeff]

Hello, first off this is my first post here! I'm looking forward to exchanging ideas about training and programming! I love all the SF material and it's principles have benefited me greatly.

However.... I often find myself at a loss as to how I can progress with my goals, and feel overwhelmed with all the different approaches.

Quick background of myself: 36 year old male, 160lbs on a soaking wet, "heavy" day.

I've been training mostly bodyweight skills for the last 6-ish years, with some supplemental weights, and as of the last 8 months or so, some more integrated kettlebell training. Most of my training goals are body weight in nature (full ROM freestanding HSPU, Front lever, etc) but I have found that incorporating KBs feels nice on my body, especially to address unilateral strength imbalances. It would be nice to press half-bodyweight KBs at some point, since I would like to do those HSPUs! I also train and teach basic-intermediate hand balancing (basic handstands, handstand shapes, and straight-arm press handstands, though I suffered a wrist injury about a year ago which set back my HS press strength)

One of my main current goals is increasing vertical pressing/pushing strength -and muscle- for that freestanding HSPU. The motor pattern for the HSPU is not quite the same as a military press, but many people have reported that military pressing aided them with HSPUs, which is why I wonder if a half-bodyweight (probably 32kg for reps, for me) KB press would translate. Current max is only 1 rep with the 24kg on my right, and a push press with the left. I worked the ROP pressing program for 5 weeks or so, but strayed a bit back into bodyweight pressing variations again the last couple weeks.

I have also read various articles here in which horizontal pushing (such as push-ups, OAP, OAOLP) seemed too help people maintain or even GAIN vertical pressing strength (usually in the form of a better KB military press).

I have a simple first question (I hope): Would it be beneficial to build very strong pushups, with bands or a weight vest? Or should I simply get my KB press really strong and then focus on technique?

In the past I have also done every variation of pike pushups and eccentric HSPUs under the sun with no success. I think my volume and intensity were both too high, so I have brought that down and am re-evaluating. Also a STRICT-form pike pushup (hips over vertical forearms, elbows in, head forward from hands, posterior pelvic tilt) still feels brutal.

Curious to see what the Strongfirst minds have to suggest!

 

[Hung]

I don't find much transfer between handstand push up and overhead press. I have done both free handstand push up (but not perfectly hollow body), half body weight one arm press ( 33 kg when i was 67 kg), bodyweight press with kettlebell ( 66 kg at 69 kg), bodyweight clean and press with barbell (75 kg at 75 kg). For me, you can take care of the press by just doing it, until you press a very heavy weight.

Beside of good technique, you need fair amount of volume to improve pressing. Both technique and safe schedule to execute great volume are what Strongfirst is very good.

I suggest first, post the video of your current pressing exercise (Pike push up?) to see the technique. After that, choose the schedule to do lots of it. Ladder and GTG are my favorite. Or you can just press everyday for same amount of reps.

Sure, you can do one arm press with kettlebell, or OAPU but treat it like a main exercise, not some kind of accessory move for HSPU.

Hope it helps.

 

[Antti]

In my experience, horizontal pressing carries over to vertical pressing well. Like from the bench press to the overhead press. How those carryover to bodyweight is a different matter.

In the long term I think it could be a good idea to diversify the training and do, for example, 3-6 week blocks with a focus on each modality. Like six weeks of kettlebell press, six weeks of a push-up variation, six weeks of HSPU.

 

[bluejeff]

Thanks to both of you!
I will try to get some videos uploaded. I think there may an issue with the format or something. . .

After that, choose the schedule to do lots of it. Ladder and GTG are my favorite. Or you can just press everyday for same amount of reps.

I have been enjoying ladders. I like the idea of practicing every day, but I maybe like it TOO much! I easily can go overboard with it. Do you mean like one set per day?

In the long term I think it could be a good idea to diversify the training and do, for example, 3-6 week blocks with a focus on each modality. Like six weeks of kettlebell press, six weeks of a push-up variation, six weeks of HSPU.

Yeah, this is kind of my question. . . One idea I had was to put overhead pressing on maintenance, and focus on getting horizontal pushing a lot stronger by adding a weight vest, bands, or harder push up variations...

 

[Steve Freides]

@bluejeff, whenever I've had a 1/2 bw kb press, I've had handstand pushups with no training handstand pushups.

-S-

 

[bluejeff]

@bluejeff, whenever I've had a 1/2 bw kb press, I've had handstand pushups with no training handstand pushups.

-S-

Thank you!
I am now wondering about the following type of training for my pushing/pressing days:
-Alternating sets of KB presses with "heavy" pushups (either banded, weighted, or with forward lean)
-Reps stay at 5
-3 days/week: heavy, light and medium volume days (e.g. 8 total rounds, 4 total rounds, 6 total rounds)
-As much rest as needed between sets (2-5 minutes)