Barbell Programming for barbell training?

[wowzer]

I ran into a wall on my pursuit to attain Sinister (40kg x 4, 48kg x 1), so as the book mentions I've switched my focus to achieving a 500 pound deadlift. Has Pavel written a book on barbell training? I'm trying to put together a programming schedule to follow. Current plan is to follow the Starting Strength program.

 

[Pete L]

I ran into a wall on my pursuit to attain Sinister (40kg x 4, 48kg x 1), so as the book mentions I've switched my focus to achieving a 500 pound deadlift. Has Pavel written a book on barbell training? I'm trying to put together a programming schedule to follow. Current plan is to follow the Starting Strength program.

Pavel and Fabio published Reload which I would recommend.

 

[BJJ Shawn]

Pavel has several books on the barbell. PTTP is pretty specific to the deadlift, as well as Deadlift Dynamite: How to Master the King of All Strength Exercises by Pavel and Andy Bolton. There’s others, but those are focused on the deadlift so recommended if that’s your goal.

 

[5x5]

I ran into a wall on my pursuit to attain Sinister (40kg x 4, 48kg x 1), so as the book mentions I've switched my focus to achieving a 500 pound deadlift. Has Pavel written a book on barbell training? I'm trying to put together a programming schedule to follow. Current plan is to follow the Starting Strength program.

You might be interested in the vodka and pickles articles Pavel put out a few years ago. I’d post a link but I don’t know how. If you go to the articles section and search for “vodka and pickles “ you should be able to find part 1&2. They combine deadlifts and kettlebells.
Happy deadlifting!!

 

[flightposite]

Beyond Bodybuilding: Muscle and Strength Training Secrets for the Renaissance Man
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One one of my favorite books still to this day.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

I ran into a wall on my pursuit to attain Sinister (40kg x 4, 48kg x 1), so as the book mentions I've switched my focus to achieving a 500 pound deadlift. Has Pavel written a book on barbell training? I'm trying to put together a programming schedule to follow. Current plan is to follow the Starting Strength program.

Power to the people would be the go to for your situation

 

[DocMike]

PTTP is good and I am running the Rogozhnikov program right now with S&S on the off days. There are a ton of programs in there to pick from. I would also recommend the Strongfirst Foolproof Cycle from their Barbell course, SFL

 

[silveraw]

I'd do PTTP over starting strength if you want to get good at the deadlift. Deadlifting 5x a week is more effective than deadlifting 1-2 times a week when you are learning the movement.

It won't get you to 500, but it will get you moving in the right direction.

 

[Adachi]

Deadlifting 5x a week is more effective than deadlifting 1-2 times a week when you are learning the movement.

Daily Dose Deadlifts gave me almost daily frequency band I could notice myself learning a preferred groove for the movement. Very cool sensation.

I'd do PTTP over starting strength

I especially like the chapter in Power To The People where there's this long drawn out discussion of tension. Hyperirradiation was the term, I think. A derivative of this concept that found it's way into my deadlift practice is what I call taking out the slack.

When I set up for the deadlift I try to generate as much pressure in my hands on the bar, and pressure on my feet against the floor, before I try to get the bar off the floor.

 

[DanAllison]

I ran into a wall on my pursuit to attain Sinister (40kg x 4, 48kg x 1), so as the book mentions I've switched my focus to achieving a 500 pound deadlift. Has Pavel written a book on barbell training? I'm trying to put together a programming schedule to follow. Current plan is to follow the Starting Strength program.

Where is your deadlift at currently?

As someone who’s involved in competitive powerlifting I’d check out some of the Westside Barbell material on top of what’s been mentioned already here.

 

[wowzer]

Where is your deadlift at currently?

As someone who’s involved in competitive powerlifting I’d check out some of the Westside Barbell material on top of what’s been mentioned already here.

I very much just got started. Currently at 275 for 5 reps.

 

[wowzer]

I'd do PTTP over starting strength if you want to get good at the deadlift. Deadlifting 5x a week is more effective than deadlifting 1-2 times a week when you are learning the movement.

It won't get you to 500, but it will get you moving in the right direction.

Main issue I have with Starting Strength is that Rip's philosophy is very different than Pavel's. Whereas Pavel talks about working on a weight getting comfortable at it, owning it, and then taking the leap to the next weight. Rip talks about buying change plates and adding the littlest bit with each workout. I got a lot of value out of the S&S program so I personally believe in this style of progression now.

 

[Starlord]

Main issue I have with Starting Strength is that Rip's philosophy is very different than Pavel's. Whereas Pavel talks about working on a weight getting comfortable at it, owning it, and then taking the leap to the next weight. Rip talks about buying change plates and adding the littlest bit with each workout. I got a lot of value out of the S&S program so I personally believe in this style of progression now.

I think in this instance I disagree with Pavel and the collective wisdom given thus far. I advise you go with SS or SL 5×5 or GSLP with plugins.

You will be a novice and able to make good progress every session. In my mind you would want to capitalise on your ability to do so without compromising form.

 

[LoneRider]

I'd do PTTP over starting strength if you want to get good at the deadlift. Deadlifting 5x a week is more effective than deadlifting 1-2 times a week when you are learning the movement.

It won't get you to 500, but it will get you moving in the right direction.

Agreed. When I did PTTP from 2011-2013 I found it was very helpful for programs where I deadlifted 1x/week like Greyskull LP or Wendler 5/3/1

 

[silveraw]

Main issue I have with Starting Strength is that Rip's philosophy is very different than Pavel's. Whereas Pavel talks about working on a weight getting comfortable at it, owning it, and then taking the leap to the next weight. Rip talks about buying change plates and adding the littlest bit with each workout. I got a lot of value out of the S&S program so I personally believe in this style of progression now.

Well kind of... But in this particular case SS has you adding weight every time you do the movement and PTTP has you adding weight every time you do the movement.

 

[william bad butt]

Do 'em both, SS and PTTP. Ride out SS for the next 3 to 6 months or so and see how it works out for you. Building up your squat will build up your deadlift, too. If you enjoy the training, eventually transition to their Practical Programming methods like the Texas Method or other ones. The Practical Programming book has a lifetime of barbell options, it is well laid out. Else you can do a cycle of Reload or 5 3 1 or other programs (I use BC's 10/20/Life Method, personally). You can even do a cycle of PTTP to focus on peaking your deadlift after building up your base with SS.

But for somebody new to the barbell, starting out with a program that has you using linear progression with multiple full body complex movements is a proven starting point. SS is 1 such method, and 1 of the best. There are others too. After you build up to an intermediate level of strength, then experiment with other types of programming besides linear progression. Start simple. If you take it serious, you will be surprised how far you get in 6 months. Afterwards, experiment and see what you like. For example, I personally prefer more of an undulating periodization scheme. Others like high frequency training (like PTTP or Planstrong). Some like Westside or conjugate. To-mato, tom-ato.

Regards,

Eric

 

[Adachi]

Main issue I have with Starting Strength is that Rip's philosophy is very different than Pavel's.

Rip and Pavel obviously have different stated goals.

Rip : drive progress. In order to follow the curve of progress potential as closely as you can.

Pavel : do not rush progress. It will accrue naturally. And those gains will be most stable.

They have much agreement on the base information, and have different motivations for programming. thusly, they wrote very different programs.

For my life, I tend to the Pavel side of things as it fits me better. But I take certain info from other programs. Like greyskull's simple advice - Knock off a percentage of weight. This is different from Pavel's resetting to near initial weights from the previous cycle. I prefer the ideas of knocking off 25 percent of the current weight should I miss a rep, than resetting to near initial weights. I don't really know why. But it appeals to me. So my intent for my next barbell cycle is to run at least 2 cycles and knock off 25% at the top of linear progression cycles. I don't think I need it to be wavier than that yet.

But, no matter what ...

Each chooses for himself.

 

[silveraw]

You can even do a cycle of PTTP to focus on peaking your deadlift after building up your base with SS.

When I started barbell lifting my first program was PTTP followed by SS. I did get good results, but I spent SS in a deload loop fortoo long. Part of the reason I don’t like it all that much is because if you go by the book Rip encourages beginners to stick with it past a sensible ending point. Granted I think the issues with SS are solved by using one of the modified versions that include AMRAP sets like Phraks or Greyskull’s.

But because of that experience, I do like doing PTTP first so you actually have time to get good at a lift or two. SS gets you OK at Rip’s low bar squat and that is about it.

 

[william bad butt]

I did get good results, but I spent SS in a deload loop fortoo long. Part of the reason I don’t like it all that much is because if you go by the book Rip encourages beginners to stick with it past a sensible ending point.

Yeah. I know. I feel the same.

SS is very effective for beginners. I would even argue it is the best system (for a beginner), if one is results oriented and wants the most rapid transformation. But this program is not meant to be continued indefinitely.

I once did the PowerliftingToWin program which was created by a SS certified coach (but not affiliated with Rip or SS). It is essentially SS/PracticalProgramming with a powerlifting focus. Same mindset. I had fantastic results. I also got injured. I think I wrote a Thread about this in ~2016. I had a back injury relapse and that is how I discovered 10/20/Life.

If one is not careful and follows the SS program blindly, they can push and push and push. This is OK, but after many months, once they are pushing heavier weights near their limit, over and over again, eventually they fail. And hopefully the "fail" is a missed lift and not an injury.

This can happen on any program. I dont blame SS. I screwed up a PTTP Bear cycle once by starting way too heavy and jumping into too many working sets before I was ready. Fortunately I didnt hurt myself beyond burnout.

I have been using the BrianCarroll/10-20-Life/PowerRackStrengthTraining philosophy or mindset or idea (whatever you want to call it), since early 2019 and off and on from 2017-2019. I'm sticking with this, indefinitely. It isnt sexy or really even a step by step program. It has just become a part of the way I do things and how I structure my training. This is the barbell method I recommend. This is the one I know. It is certainly the tortoise and not the hare, method. You will not increase your bench 50 lb in 4 weeks! No, no, not at all! Progress is very slow and steady. New people would lose patience, so I rarely recommend it. But after a couple 10 or 20 week cycles, you wake up and realize, "Wow! I have gotten pretty strong! Now time for a deload!"

Regards,

Eric

 

[Mark Limbaga]

You can do PTTP then s and s twice a week

A stronger 3-5rm in the deadlift will definitely help your swings