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Kettlebell Programming Swings and Cleans

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David C

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Any suggestions for programming swings and cleans only? I am rehabbing a shoulder issue and have been cleared for swings and cleans. I can 1 and 2 hand swing and single/double clean. I have three days per week to program these exercises. My goals are strength and conditioning, though I wouldn't mind hypertrophy. Thanks for your help!
David
 
I think that we are in the same boat. I have minor shoulder issues too, but swings or cleans don't irritate them further.
I usually combine double cleans or 1H and 2H swings with jogging. For example, sets of 10-15 swings or sets of 5-8 double cleans, with mild barefoot jogging for one or two minutes in between. I also combine swings or double cleans with push ups, goblet squats and pull ups. But that's another story , as I don't know if you are cleared to do these ones.
 
If you wanted a really straightforward progression for both try this:
20minutes on the clock 3 days/week.
Alternate double swings and double cleans.
Double clean 10RM
Day 1 sets of 6
Day 2 ladders 2,4,6
Day 3 sets of 8

Instead of upping anything else for a few weekes increase your rate of perceived exhertion. Basically try and get a little more work done each week in the corresponding session.

If you really wanted you could add some double front squats in as well, though your shoulder might not like them. Eat well and you'll do fine.
 
After a few shoulder injuries & surgeries, my advice is, even after being cleared I would wait longer than you think you should. Pull a sled with a harness instead. I have been "cleared" and then reinjured. Sometimes it doesn't take much, even something as simple as the swing or clean. I think it's a better risk avoidance to wait until cleared for everything and then start with TGUs to rehab a shoulder.

But if you don't wait, I agree with the escalated density training mentioned above.
 
@David C Determine your kettlebell weight based off a 10RM

Week 1: Set Timer for 10 minutes / Alternate exercises until you have completed 10 minutes

Day 1 - 2H Swing x 15 (RTOM - Rest until Top of the Minute)
1H Clean x 5 ea side (RTOM)

Day 2 - 1H Swing x 10 each side (RTOM)
Double Cleans x 10 (RTOM)

Day 3 - 2H Swing x 15 (RTOM)
1H Clean x 5 ea side (RTOM)


Week 2: Set Timer for 12 minutes......

Week 3: Set Timer for 15 minutes........

Week 4: Set Timer for 18 minutes.......

*Once you complete Week 4, re-test your 10RM to determine kettlebell weight progression
 
@David C
I won't address programing swings and cleans, but since you mentioned a shoulder issue I would address that...

If you are cleared for swings and cleans than you might be also cleared for armbars. If so, I would recommend you to give them a try and see if they work well for you.

I used armbars successfully to regain mobility, stability and motor control in both shoulders (unrelated injuries separated by 2 years).

I had mobility issues in my left shoulder a while back and couldn't maintain over-head ROM that I gained with hard and lengthy mobility work. That was right around the time I read Movement so I figured that stability and control work where the missing ingredients. Lacking the confidence go over-head I tried one armbar on each side, felt good, increased ROM and confidence, added couple more, worked well... I rarely went for more than 3 each side a day with, a load that was just a little challenging. Adding some bent armbars along the way really helped with some thoracic mobility issues I apparently also had.

Based on some reading smart people stuff* I think that the rich proprioceptive environment is the key here (just like in TGUs and other self-limiting activities) and that one can reap a nice share of the benefits from TGUs without the need to go over-head.

*smart people stuff - in this context mainly Movement and a some blog entries by @Brett Jones (including, but not limited to, the recent Spices Vs. Main Dishes)
 
@David C

If you are cleared for swings and cleans than you might be also cleared for armbars. If so, I would recommend you to give them a try and see if they work well for you.

I used armbars successfully to regain mobility, stability and motor control in both shoulders (unrelated injuries separated by 2 years).

I had mobility issues in my left shoulder a while back and couldn't maintain over-head ROM that I gained with hard and lengthy mobility work. That was right around the time I read Movement so I figured that stability and control work where the missing ingredients. Lacking the confidence go over-head I tried one armbar on each side, felt good, increased ROM and confidence, added couple more, worked well... I rarely went for more than 3 each side a day with, a load that was just a little challenging. Adding some bent armbars along the way really helped with some thoracic mobility issues I apparently also had.

Based on some reading smart people stuff* I think that the rich proprioceptive environment is the key here (just like in TGUs and other self-limiting activities) and that one can reap a nice share of the benefits from TGUs without the need to go over-head.

*smart people stuff - in this context mainly Movement and a some blog entries by @Brett Jones (including, but not limited to, the recent Spices Vs. Main Dishes)
@Shahaf Levin would the TRX peck stretch accomplish the same thing as an armbar?
 
I've had great experience with SF armbars on the floor. They helped "re-program" my shoulder how to work properly, rather than by building strength or stretching. You don't need heavy weight or much stretching- I think they could hurt a lot if you overdid them. IF you are cleared for armbars, use just enough weight to stimulate propioception and just wait to get the lats and upper back activated, with both scapula moving together and in line. I don't see how a pec stretch could do the same thing- I'd done armbars standing up in a doorway before without the same benefits. These have also helped me a lot with TGUs, as it's easier to use the lats to support the weight of the bell during the different phases.
 
Agree with @Matts ... the arm bar is mainly about stability, not stretch. But the pec stretch is a nice side benefit; and yes, I think there are many good ways to get that, including TRX. Another one is face a wall, reach your arm out from the shoulder, then turn your body away from the wall and away from your arm.
 
Thanks @Matts and @Anna C ! I do the TRX peck stretch in the morinign to help "open" me up, I think im going to give these armbars a try tomorrow.

just a couple each side right? not to many or I might possibly be doing harm...
 
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@Shahaf Levin would the TRX peck stretch accomplish the same thing as an armbar?

@Strong Rick , I agree with @Matts and @Anna C.
While the TRX pec stretch can be used as a mobility tool (if tight pecs are a problem) it lacks the "proprioceptive vertical" stimulus generated from balancing the bell. This stimulus triggers learning of reflexive stability and motor control, which are the BIG benefits of the armbar. I'm pretty sure the great carry over of armbars to over-head position is from teaching the CNS to cope with this "proprioceptive vertical" stimuli.

And regarding stretching as the main solution for ROM problems...
As Gray Cook says in Movement, Kelly Starrett in Becoming a Supple leopard (and my own personal experience validates), following mobility work with stability and patterning practice is the (only?) way for long term ROM adaptations.

For more information regarding such motor-control practice search for self-limiting activities (This is a section in Gray Cook's web-site).

If you don't have a weight to balance in the armbar you can do a naked armbar balancing a half-full paper cup on you fist. That would probably work...

EDIT:
@Strong Rick , Just saw you posted a second before me :)
Yeah, do a couple of sets of single rep each side, think of them as TGUish. You will probably notice the difference right away. For me personally a single each side is enough...
 
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hey @Strong Rick, instead of opening up with the trx pec stretches, you might try it from the other side. Lay down on back and put a yoga block or foam roller under your thoracic spine and just relax on it. I've been doing that after arm bars, and the combination is great for me. There's a lot of yoga vids on "thoracic spine mobilization." I'm not an expert on ins and outs of it, but lots online are.
 
@David C. welcome to StrongFirst!

My goals are strength and conditioning, though I wouldn't mind hypertrophy.
I will echo what others have already said. Your goals should be shoulder health, first and foremost, and let everything else come after that. You might try aiming for the swing portion of S&S using a very light weight and very gradually increasing.

-S-
 
You might try aiming for the swing portion of S&S using a very light weight and very gradually increasing.

This is pretty much exactly what I did when I had a shoulder injury and it worked fantastically. I started with 16kg (which bruised my ego tbh, but was time well spent) and slowly worked up. I was swinging the 32kg by the time I included any weight on my getups. Probably one of the most productive training periods of my life when I look back on it.

It's okay to admit you're injured and shift your priority to healing. That was a lesson it took me a long time to learn.
 
@Steve Freides. Thanks for the welcome. I've kept up with the SF forum since it started and have gleaned tons of wisdom from many on here, including you. Thanks!

Concerning my shoulder, I have a minor labral tear and have had a bit of soft-tissue issues in the scapula region from compensating from it. I just spent a few months rehabbing/dry needling the scapula to get better scapula rhythm and recruitment of the peri-scapula musculature. That was largely successful and I've been cleared for comfortable overhead work, which I will do slowly in my rehabbing effort.

Thanks @Shahaf Levin @Matts and @Anna C for the SF arm bar suggestion. I'll add that to my rehab exercises and see how it works.

@natewhite39 I like what you put together. Steve's suggestion for doing the swing portion of S&S starting at a really low weight, progressing slowly, really sounds good too. Thanks @DavThew for your comment on that too. Maybe I can do the swing portion of S&S slowly and add a few cleans to my warm up. Thanks all for your help!
.
 
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