Bodyweight Programming Swings for NW

[ali]

The Kettlebell Swing load need to be near your body weight. That means if you weight let's say 160 lbs; Kettlebell Swings need preformed with Kettlebell in the 160 lb range.

Really?
In S&S, Pavel says 30% for optimum power.
There maybe a thing here comparing every(wo)man v extreme mutants but a bodyweight swing is something rarely practiced by most, no?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Really?
In S&S, Pavel says 30% for optimum power.
There maybe a thing here comparing every(wo)man v extreme mutants but a bodyweight swing is something rarely practiced by most, no?

Yes, Really

The research dosen't support the use of 30% for optimal Power for Kettlebell Swings. That information is provide in Dr Bret Contreras research, which I provide in a previous post.

With that in mind, let's look at...

Traditional Exercise Power Training Percengates

Research has demonstrated that Power Training with Traditional Exercises such as Squat, Bench Press, Deadlifts, etc. occurs when 48 to 63% of 1 Repetition Max are employed.

That supports the Westside "Speed Trainng" Protocol. "Speed Training" with this percentage is a misnomer. Power is developed with loads in this percentage rage, not Power.

Olympic Lifting Movements

Research shows that Power is developed with load of 70 to 80% of 1 Repetition Max. Kettlebell Power Output measurement based on Contreras research rivals the Olympic Movement.

The research clearly shows that that force production of heavier Kettlebell Swings produces dramatically higher Power Output than Kettlebell Swings with load of 30% of 1 Repetition Max.

The Eccentric Component of The Kettlebell Swing

One of the differences between Kettlebell Swings and Olympic Lifting Movements is the Eccentric Component.

Olympic Lift Movements are primarily Concentric Only.

Kettlebell Swings have an Eccentric component. Allowing the weight to fall back into the hole elicits the Stretch Reflex. Research denotes that up to 18% more Power Output is produce.

The Stretch Reflex in the Kettlebell Swing dramatically increases Power Output allowing you to move a much heavier load/weight with a Kettlebell Swing.

Training Effect

Performing Kettlebell Swings with 30% of 1 Repetition Max is an effective method for "Speed Training".

However, Power is best trained and developed with much higher load than 30% of 1 Repetition Max.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Steve Freides]

Comparing Apples and Oranges

A two-handed kettlebell swing whose purpose is to emulate or replace "speed" deadlifts in a Westside-style powerlifting program is not the same thing as either a two- or a one-handed kettlebell swing done for GPP purposes.

Matching Training to Goals

Advanced, competitive athletes in any sport, including powerlifting, should take advice from their coaches about how to use lifting weights to enhance sports performance. Beginning and intermediate athletes would do well to follow the guidance of Kettlebell Simple and Sinister.

Many here on our forum train for general health and fitness. Some participate casually at a sport. Many, perhaps most, here either don't have a coach or don't care to direct their weight lifting only towards improving their sport-specific performance. For this group, in which I include myself, we will have to say, "Your Mileage May Vary." Experiment to find what works best for you.

-S-

 

[DavThew]

@Steve Freides YMMV is probably the statement backed by the most evidence in all areas of life.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Comparing Apples and Oranges

A two-handed kettlebell swing whose purpose is to emulate or replace "speed" deadlifts in a Westside-style powerlifting program is not the same thing as either a two- or a one-handed kettlebell swing done for GPP purposes.

Power Output, Apple to Apple

Steve, my post address the Power Output Comparisons; Heavy Kettlebell Swings rivaling Olympic Movements.

The Power Output of the Heavy Kettlebell Swings rivals Olympic Movement.

Speed Deadlifts

Power Output of Speed Deadlifts dwarfs in comparison to Heavy Kettlebell Swings and Olympic Movement.

While some Power can be developed with "Speed Deadlifts"/Power Deadlifts it is not the optimal method of demonstrating or increasing Power.

Research by Dr John Garhammer (which I have noted in other post) found that even when Deadlift load/percentages were dramatically decreased, "Speed/Power Deadlifts were even close.

With that said, the movement pattern and muscle involvement of Heavy Kettlebell Swings is similar to the Deadlift.

Employing Heavy Kettlebell Swings and/or Olympic Movements is an effective training tool for increasing the Deadlift.

GPP

General conditioning is determined by the Training Protocol, not the exercise choice. Thus, any exercise can be effectively employed as a Conditioning Exercise.

One Or Two Hand Swings

The Kettlebell Swing utilizes the largest muscle of the body, the posterior chain. To effective overload them, a greater load is needed.

Obviously, a Two Hand Swing allows a lifter to use more weight than a One Hand Swing.

Thus, the Two Hand Swing dramatically increase the overload to a greater degree than a One Hand Swing. That applies across the board: Power, Hypertrophy, GPP.

Matching Training to Goals

Advanced, competitive athletes in any sport, including powerlifting, should take advice from their coaches about how to use lifting weights to enhance sports performance. Beginning and intermediate athletes would do well to follow the guidance of Kettlebell Simple and Sinister.

Many here on our forum train for general health and fitness. Some participate casually at a sport. Many, perhaps most, here either don't have a coach or don't care to direct their weight lifting only towards improving their sport-specific performance. For this group, in which I include myself, we will have to say, "Your Mileage May Vary." Experiment to find what works best for you.

Match Your Training To Goal and Your Training Age/Experience

The Goal and Training Age of a lifter need to be taken into consideration in writing a program.

Employing Heavy Kettlebell Swings is geared for some intermediate and advanced lifter in pursuit of increasing Limit Strength and Power in Powerlifting or other sports.

Experimentation is fundamental to finding out what work and gaining knowledge. However, some rule do apply.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Steve Freides]

OK

OK.

-S-

 

[Dasho]

Any input on how to program these 24kg swings into my NW practice would be much appreciated. What worked for you, etc..

Thanks

Last week, I actually started a sort of NW/Swing/Ab routine. I have a 16kg that I use as part of my warmup (OS Resets then Goblet Squats/Armbars), but I'm using a 24kg for my swings (one-handed). This is basically the template I'm playing with:

Mon-Wed-Fri: 10 sets of 5 swings. If I make all reps through the week with good form, add one rep per set next week, i.e. 10 sets of 6 swings. I will probably think about upping the weight once I'm capable of 150-200 per session with good form and power.
Tue-Thur: 2x5 ab wheel rollouts, followed by a little running (gotta keep my run times down - Air Force)
Mon-Sat: GTG Pistols and OAP.
Sun: Rest.

It may work, it may not, but my PT test is 7 months away so I have time to play around without having to train for something specific.