all posts post new thread

Kettlebell Pros and Cons of Different Swing-Types?

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Yes, generally read at rest, either lying down or sitting. For people in really excellent aerobic condition (Ironman triathletes, for instance), they recommend taking the reading standing, just to get enough stress on the heart to measure a difference from day to day. Either way, the goal is to be consistent with your reading so your morning reading indicates something about your NS state, which therefore (theoretically) indicates something about your degree of stress and recovery.

Other than the morning readiness reading, you can take a reading anytime during the day while doing anything at all. You might try before, during, and after a Buteyko breathing session, for instance. I think you'll see that a breathing practice session increases your HRV.

As for skipping a beat, I think it's unrelated. My heart does that too, but only a few times per day, so it's unlikely to happen during the 1-2 minutes I'm taking a reading. If it does, I suppose that depends how the algorithm handles it as to whether it affects the result.
Not knowing any better, I took it standing up. HRV=48, HR=67. It had instructions about when to breathe in and breathe out, and I didn't follow those - the respiration rate as indicated would have been artificially fast for me.

Based on the chart here: Heart Rate Variability | The Ultimate Guide to HRV | WHOOP it would seems I'm at the high end for my age.

-S-
 
Last edited:

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Smart man, it's no good doing the same thing all the time. For now I'm doing:

- heavy 2 hand swings (my back loves them)
- anchored double cleans
- double cleans
- double swings
- double snatches

All varying though I'm really digging the anchored cleans.
Everything is done in the cluster format

It's 95 degrees in my training area and I have 60 sets of 8 rep VWC to do :( Oh well, it's only 30 mins.. if things start to go South I'll have to stop :mad:

What's an anchored double clean?
 

Bret S.

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
What's an anchored double clean?
I probably didn't use the right descriptor, it's alternating cleans with two bells in your hands. One stays down and 'anchors' you as you clean one at a time doing a dead hang type clean. It works best for heavier cleans.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
I probably didn't use the right descriptor, it's alternating cleans with two bells in your hands. One stays down and 'anchors' you as you clean one at a time doing a dead hang type clean. It works best for heavier cleans.
Sounds like a gorilla clean?
 

Bret S.

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Sounds like a gorilla clean?
Pretty much, but not done simultaneously.. I leave one arm hanging and clean with the other. As in most lifts, there's more than one way to do it depending on what you want to get from the movement. It gets too risky for me to do it in a simultaneous fashion with heavier bells.

As always it's a balance between goals, risk, recovery and reward. I enjoy many movements and would love to do them all, but my recovery dollar only goes so far.. and time of course :)
 

Bret S.

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
That's it, for my purposes I go up down right, then up down left.. while the opposite arm stays still with the bell hanging.

It's harder without momentum from an opposite action on the other side. I suppose I could clean them one at a time off the floor, but I'm too lazy for that.. Doing it the way he's doing it in the video would be pretty risky for me with 28 or 32k bells.

I can see his method working pretty well to build muscle if you were to do it with moderate weight and go for a pump, the problem with hypertrophy is it goes away if you stop doing the movement. These days I'm getting some added hypertrophy from Navy SEAL burpees, it's a nice strength and aerobic stimulus. I do one Burpee and one pull up every 30 seconds for up to an hour, so far it's yielding some nice results in all around strength and Mobility.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Never seen this one before. Seems to ballistically challenge both ankle and t-spine mobilities, which is something I'm interested in.

I'm not seeing a lot of thoracic extension going on or dorsi/plantar flexion in the ankles.

There is more knee travel happening from ankle flexibility in a squat.

Can you elaborate?
 

barrak

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm not seeing a lot of thoracic extension going on or dorsi/plantar flexion in the ankles.

There is more knee travel happening from ankle flexibility in a squat.

Can you elaborate?
The double front squats keep me honest by extending my t-spine or else the bells will threaten to spill over. Probably due to twin limitations in t-spine and ankles which I'm working on. I'm guessing momentarily holding a clean with one hand while hiking a bell with the other will further push both mobilities. Worth a quick experiment at least.
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
The double front squats keep me honest by extending my t-spine or else the bells will threaten to spill over. Probably due to twin limitations in t-spine and ankles which I'm working on. I'm guessing momentarily holding a clean with one hand while hiking a bell with the other will further push both mobilities. Worth a quick experiment at least.

I guess it's all relative.

I tend to think of KB rack as neutral t-spine posture.

Unlike say, a BB front squat, or especially a bridge pose, which involve extension beyond neutral.

But if one is kyphotic, then I guess neutral is extension. :)
 

oab

Level 2 Valued Member
Just thanking all the contributers to this thread. It is great stuff. I wish someone would write up threads like this into an article or summary.
The thread also illustrates the subtle "layers" of programing that are possible in S&S (or other programs).
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Just thanking all the contributers to this thread. It is great stuff. I wish someone would write up threads like this into an article or summary.
The thread also illustrates the subtle "layers" of programing that are possible in S&S (or other programs).

We didn't even talk about uneven swings yet. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: oab

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
That's it, for my purposes I go up down right, then up down left.. while the opposite arm stays still with the bell hanging.

It's harder without momentum from an opposite action on the other side. I suppose I could clean them one at a time off the floor, but I'm too lazy for that.. Doing it the way he's doing it in the video would be pretty risky for me with 28 or 32k bells.

I can see his method working pretty well to build muscle if you were to do it with moderate weight and go for a pump, the problem with hypertrophy is it goes away if you stop doing the movement. These days I'm getting some added hypertrophy from Navy SEAL burpees, it's a nice strength and aerobic stimulus. I do one Burpee and one pull up every 30 seconds for up to an hour, so far it's yielding some nice results in all around strength and Mobility.

I tried it tonight.

I thought it would be a cake walk given I vertically clean from the floor by default.

About 6 reps in I smacked myself in the fruit basket.
 

barrak

Level 6 Valued Member
I tried it tonight.

I thought it would be a cake walk given I vertically clean from the floor by default.

About 6 reps in I smacked myself in the fruit basket.

Ouch! Sorry to hear that.

How about posting an enactment video... as a public service?
 

watchnerd

Level 6 Valued Member
Doubles
  • Pro
    • Heavy loading
    • Additional challenge to use a lot of power, yet maintain good control of both bells. Technique must be good!
    • Works well as part of a complex or chain
      • Doubles complex example: 5 swings + 5 cleans
      • Doubles chain example: swing, clean, press, swing, clean, squat
  • Con
    • Wider stance, often wider than comfortable for knees
    • Power projection sometimes limited by ability to control the kettlebells

After doing modest amounts (5-10 sets of 10) of Doubles on my "variety days" during barbell season (previous seasons, I'd only done 1H or 2H) for the last 6 weeks, I'm going to add:

  • Glute medius activation & strengthening
  • Hip abductor activation & strengthening
  • Improved split stance stability at greater depths
  • Improved overhead squat / snatch stability at greater depths for longer time
  • Deeper cossack squats
  • VMO hypertrophy
  • Side-butt hypertrophy
 
Top Bottom