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Nutrition Protein Burnout

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IMayAgainKnowChris

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175lbs male. 5’8. Currently in a cycle of ROP.

Anyone have experience with good strength/muscle gains on a sub 100g a day protein diet.

Been keto/carnivore for a while and to be honest I’m getting REALLY burned out on having to eat so much meat all the time (2+lbs a day). Protein powder messes with my stomach no matter what. I know the suggested protein is like around 1g/1lb lean body mass but I’m wondering if anyone has direct experience eating less than that and still gaining strength.

This pains me to ask because it’s working for me. Just wondering if I can ease up a bit.
 
I assume you also eat fish , eggs and dairy?
Healthy carbs like sweet potato, wilde rice, squash, ancients grains do not contain ( much) protein, but they do provide energy. Try and aim for the 1g/1 lbs on recovery days and up the carbs on training days.
 
Been keto/carnivore for a while and to be honest I’m getting REALLY burned out on having to eat so much meat all the time (2+lbs a day). Protein powder messes with my stomach no matter what. I know the suggested protein is like around 1g/1lb lean body mass but I’m wondering if anyone has direct experience eating less than that and still gaining strength.

This pains me to ask because it’s working for me. Just wondering if I can ease up a bit.
There seems to be a very big gap between what you are currently doing and what you would like to do. If you are eating 2 lbs of meat per day you might be eating 260 grams of protein per day. That is a lot, is lot more than the usual guidance of 175 g per day for your bodyweight, and a lot more than the 100 g you are considering consuming. There are studies that suggest 1.6g per kilo per day which would give 127 g per day for you, and what you are eating now is twice that number.

Meat and veggies is a proven diet. You can cut meat by half and eat some veggies with it and you'll do just fine. Just eat half a pound of meat per serving, twice a day, with broccoli, and you would be sparing the world of decomposing broccoli.

I have gotten stronger being vegetarian and barely eating protein. I have achieved timed Simple, snatch test, a pistol, 48 kg TGU and I wasnt even close of any of this when I started. I now eat meat but not even close to the quantity you are eating.

Give it a try and see what happens.
 
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I accept the evidence that high(er) protein diets are beneficial for strength/muscle but I've hung around the developing world with some seriously big, strong and muscly dudes who eat, by our standards, low protein diets. I'm talking a small handful of meat at most with each meal plus whatever is in their grains with maybe a very small amount of dairy. perhaps ~50g protein daily. For them, this is purely a cost issue. They can't afford much protein. Now, it's arguable that they would be bigger, stronger and more muscly if they ate more protein but to look at them you wouldn't believe low protein to be a problem.
 
Just wanted to follow up... I still don’t enjoy eating ground meat. Still at about 1lb-1.5lb a day and since November I’ve outgrown most of my medium shirts :) up to 183 right now (from 175). Pants still fit the same. Not sure if someone can gain that muscle muscle in 4 months but maybe?
I lost significant weight in 6 months doing simple and sinister and seem to be gaining weight on ROP.

Clearly this is an individual experiment but I might cut that protein even a bit lower and see if I still can make “gains” on my new ROP cycle. (Also, I understand strength gains can/will be made through technique practice). I just want to make sure I’m fueling my body and don’t want to bottom out on energy and I haven’t yet.
Been throwing in some veggies now and again and sometimes eat the ground meat with pasta sauce and/or cheese but I definitely have had so much success with this diet in terms of body recomposition that I’m genuinely afraid to mess with it.
I don’t sleep enough and stress level is fairly high from work in addition to cortisol probably being through the roof due to coffee consumption but I seem to be trucking along.

Had another question to throw on here... Anyone make any significant hypertrophy/body composition progress in a caloric deficit (right now I figure I’m eating about 1500 max and I’m assuming my maintainence is around 2000) and just focusing on hitting protein macros? I can find a thousand stories online but I’d like to hear from the forum if anyone has any insight. I’m open to adding some sweet potatoes/ more veggies back in ala PALEO, but am actually a little carb phobic right now.

If anyone wants to chime in on any of this please do. Sorry for the rambling!
 
Alan Aragon mentioned in a recent podcast that 1.2g/kg of bodyweight should be one’s minimum daily protein intake. That puts me at about 100 grams, which I can easily get from 1 pound of meat.

I prefer to get more than that, though.
 
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Alan Aragon mentioned in a recent podcast that 1.2g/kg of bodyweight should be one’s minimum daily protein intake. That puts me at about 100 grams, which I can easily get from 1 pound of meat.

I prefer to get more than that, though.
Isn’t there only about 80g protein in a pound of ground beef? Not sure about chicken or anything else.
 
" A little starvation can really do more for the average sick man than can the best medicines and the best doctor's . " ---- Mark Twain

Good for healthy and strong individuals as well, IMO.


@IMayAgainKnowChris , not sure if a consistent 1500 would work long term, but cycling your intake might get you there. Around 84 grams of pro. in 1 lb. of 85/15 ground beef, leaner will be higher. Ground elk probably close to 100.
 
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" A little starvation can really do more for the average sick man than can the best medicines and the best doctor's . " ---- Mark Twain

Good for healthy and strong individuals as well, IMO.


@IMayAgainKnowChris , not sure if a consistent 1500 would work long term, but cycling your intake might get you there. Around 84 grams of pro. in 1 lb. of 85/15 ground beef, leaner will be higher. Ground elk probably close to 100.
Thanks for the input. As with most everything this seems to be one of the areas you shouldn’t really overthink and just need to experiment. I do love the sounding board of the forum though.
 
. I'm talking a small handful of meat at most with each meal plus whatever is in their grains with maybe a very small amount of dairy. perhaps ~50g protein daily.
I was in that situation a few years ago, that is why Pavel's approach is fascinated to me.
"PT: Under military conditions, whether you drink protein shakes or eat squirrel steaks, these techniques are supposed to work."
Sorry for rambling :)
 
Had another question to throw on here... Anyone make any significant hypertrophy/body composition progress in a caloric deficit (right now I figure I’m eating about 1500 max and I’m assuming my maintainence is around 2000) and just focusing on hitting protein macros? I can find a thousand stories online but I’d like to hear from the forum if anyone has any insight. I’m open to adding some sweet potatoes/ more veggies back in ala PALEO, but am actually a little carb phobic right now.
This is a video that I think lays out the recomp approach pretty well. The TLDR is it is possible in the technical sense and in some specific circumstances, of which you may qualify for.
 
I know the suggested protein is like around 1g/1lb lean body mass but I’m wondering if anyone has direct experience eating less than that and still gaining strength.
1 Gram Of Protein Per Pound of Lean Body Mass

That is a good recommendation.

However, the issue is that most individual don't really know what their Lean Body Mass is.

In all methods of determining Lean Muscle Mass there is a plus/minus component. And all of these method have flaws.

Secondly, the amount of protein intake appears to be more relevant to...

Leucine Intake

Leucine is the "Anabolic Amino Acid" ensures muscle mass is maintained and/or muscle mass is gained.

Research (Drs Layne Norton and Donald Layman) have demonstrated that a certain amount of Leucine per serving is required to maintain and/or increase muscle mass.

Age Dependent Amount of Leucine

1) Younger individual, into there 20's, respond to around 2.5 gram of Leucine per serving.

2) Older individual, around 30 plus need around 2 gram plus of Leucine per serving.

Younger individual system are more effective than older individual.

Thus, older individual need more to elicit the same response.

Leucine Content of Foods

The Leucine in High Quality Proteins (Meats and Dairy) are around 8%.

Thus, an individual consuming whole food would obtain around 2.4 gram of Leucine from 30 gram of High Quality Protein; around 3.2 gram from consuming around 40 gram of High Quality Protein.

Another factor regarding maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis is the...

Refractory Period

One of the keys to maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis is the timing of when it is ingested.

The old traditional method of consuming protein approximately every three hours is incorrect, out dated information that continues to be perpetuated.

Maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis

Research (Drs Layne Norton and Gabe Wilson) determined that Maximum Muscle Protein Synthesis is optimized when protein intake occurs every 4 - 6 hours.

Sponge Analogy

Think of the body like a sponge. When the sponge is soaking wet, it cannot absorb any more water until the sponge dries out. Once the sponge is dry, it absorbs more water. The same applies with protein, medication, resistance training, etc.

Diet and Protein Intake

The type of diet an individual is on also plays into the amount of protein intake.

1) Ketogenic Diet

Individual on the Ketogenic Diet appear need less protein.

That because research (Volek and Phinney) determined that Leucine levels increase and were maintained to a greater extent with individual on the Ketogenic Diet.

Ketones provide a protein sparing effect with Leucine. Source: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance.

Somewhere between 1.2 to 1.7 gram of High Quality Protein per pound of body weight are recommended.

Intermittent Fasting Ketosis

As we know, in fasting the body utilized ketone more effectively.

Research shows that fast of up to 72 hours utilize ketones/body fat, while preserving muscle mass.

With that said, let's look at...

1 Gram of Protein Per Pound of Body Weight On Keto

One research article found that there was an increase in muscle mass on the Ketogenic Diet when protein intake was increase to 1 gram per pound.

The caveat was that to ensure ketosis was preserved, fat intake needs to be 70% plus of Total Calorie Intake with carbohydrate kept at 50 gram or less.

Based on that, let look at the example of a...

200 lb Lifter

1) 200 gram of Protein Per Day/800 calorie from Protein. If Protein were maintained at the 25% of Total Calories (the top end of Protein on a Ketogenic Diet) that would mean...

2) To maintain a Fat Intake of 70% of Total Calories an intake of 248 grams of Fat/2240 Total Per Day is required.

2) Carnivore Diet

Due to the higher percentage of Protein:Fat Intake, greater Protein intake is required.

That because the higher protein intake does allow individual to be in ketosis, or if so the time in ketosis is limited.

With the higher protein intake, the body primary source of fuel continues to be glucose rather than ketones.

Protein is converted into glucose, via gluconeogenesis.

3) Standard High Carbohydrate American Diet

The amount of Protein Intake on this diet usually needs to be fairly high.

The amount of Protein Intake required is depended on the Activity or Sport; how much glucose is required and how much glucose (carbohydrates) are consumed.

If an individual is not consuming enough carbohydrates to meet the glucose demand for a Glycolytic Energy System Activity, Training Program, or Sport, gluconeogenesis occurs.

That means protein is necessary for repairing and building muscle is converted to glucose.
 
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1 Gram Of Protein Per Pound of Lean Body Mass

That is a good recommendation.

However, the issue is that most individual don't really know what their Lean Body Mass is.

In all methods of determining Lean Muscle Mass there is a plus/minus component. And all of these method have flaws.

Secondly, the amount of protein intake appears to be more relevant to...

Leucine Intake

Leucine is the "Anabolic Amino Acid" ensures muscle mass is maintained and/or muscle mass is gained.

Research (Drs Layne Norton and Donald Layman) have demonstrated that a certain amount of Leucine per serving is required to maintain and/or increase muscle mass.

Age Dependent Amount of Leucine

1) Younger individual, into there 20's, respond to around 2.5 gram of Leucine per serving.

2) Older individual, around 30 plus need around 2 gram plus of Leucine per serving.

Younger individual system are more effective than older individual.

Thus, older individual need more to elicit the same response.

Leucine Content of Foods

The Leucine in High Quality Proteins (Meats and Dairy) are around 8%.

Thus, an individual consuming whole food would obtain around 2.4 gram of Leucine from 30 gram of High Quality Protein; around 3.2 gram from consuming around 40 gram of High Quality Protein.

Another factor regarding maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis is the...

Refractory Period

One of the keys to maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis is the timing of when it is ingested.

The old traditional method of consuming protein approximately every three hours is incorrect, out dated information that continues to be perpetuated.

Maximizing Muscle Protein Synthesis

Research (Drs Layne Norton and Gabe Wilson) determined that Maximum Muscle Protein Synthesis is optimized when protein intake occurs every 4 - 6 hours.

Sponge Analogy

Think of the body like a sponge. When the sponge is soaking wet, it cannot absorb any more water until the sponge dries out. Once the sponge is dry, it absorbs more water. The same applies with protein, medication, resistance training, etc.

Diet and Protein Intake

The type of diet an individual is on also plays into the amount of protein intake.

1) Ketogenic Diet

Individual on the Ketogenic Diet appear need less protein.

That because research (Volek and Phinney) determined that Leucine levels increase and were maintained to a greater extent with individual on the Ketogenic Diet.

Ketones provide a protein sparing effect with Leucine. Source: The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance.

Somewhere between 1.2 to 1.7 gram of High Quality Protein per pound of body weight are recommended.

Intermittent Fasting Ketosis

As we know, in fasting the body utilized ketone more effectively.

Research shows that fast of up to 72 hours utilize ketones/body fat, while preserving muscle mass.

With that said, let's look at...

1 Gram of Protein Per Pound of Body Weight On Keto

One research article found that there was an increase in muscle mass on the Ketogenic Diet when protein intake was increase to 1 gram per pound.

The caveat was that to ensure ketosis was preserved, fat intake needs to be 70% plus of Total Calorie Intake with carbohydrate kept at 50 gram or less.

Based on that, let look at the example of a...

200 lb Lifter

1) 200 gram of Protein Per Day/800 calorie from Protein. If Protein were maintained at the 25% of Total Calories (the top end of Protein on a Ketogenic Diet) that would mean...

2) To maintain a Fat Intake of 70% of Total Calories an intake of 248 grams of Fat/2240 Total Per Day is required.

2) Carnivore Diet

Due to the higher percentage of Protein:Fat Intake, greater Protein intake is required.

That because the higher protein intake does allow individual to be in ketosis, or if so the time in ketosis is limited.

With the higher protein intake, the body primary source of fuel continues to be glucose rather than ketones.

Protein is converted into glucose, via gluconeogenesis.

3) Standard High Carbohydrate American Diet

The amount of Protein Intake on this diet usually needs to be fairly high.

The amount of Protein Intake required is depended on the Activity or Sport; how much glucose is required and how much glucose (carbohydrates) are consumed.

If an individual is not consuming enough carbohydrates to meet the glucose demand for a Glycolytic Energy System Activity, Training Program, or Sport, gluconeogenesis occurs.

That means protein is necessary for repairing and building muscle is converted to glucose.
Thank you!
 
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