Nutrition Protein Pulsing and Pulse Feeding

[LukeV]

Protein Comparative Chart

The Truth About Protein: How Much And How Often? Written By Layne Norton - SimplyShredded.com

From the time that the first physique enthusiasts & bodybuilders ever started choking down extra chicken breasts, steaks, and vile concoctions to increase their protein intake for the purposes of gaining muscle; the question of just how much protein is optimal has been debated. Fast forward more...

simplyshredded.com

This chart provides comparative information on the various proteins; the amount needed to obtain the right Leucine dosage.

View attachment 14135

Vegan Proteins

Vegan Foods are low in Protein and Leucine.

Beans and Rice

I once calculate the amount of Beans and Rice necessary to obtain enough Protein, which means to obtain enought Leucine in a meal.

An individual would need to need to consume approximately three (3) cups of Beans and Rice; which is nuts.

I've posted on this before but I've hung out in the developed world a lot including with some seriously huge bodybuilder types. These guys don't eat a lot of meat or dairy because they can't afford it, but they eat a lot, primarily grains with some vegetables. They do consciously eat more so three cups of beans and rice (at least) would be a normal meal for them, with what we would regard as a tiny bit of meat added most meals. (In general terms, the meat for a meal shared by a family fits in the palm of one hand.) I've estimated their protein intake at <50g daily even though they are big guys. Maybe I'm underestimating the beans and rice proteins

 

[North Coast Miller]

So which is better, muscle or autophagy for us over forty guys? Can't we just split the difference and pulse feed half the days a week and intermittent feed the other half?

Exercise alone triggers autophagy. Execise + IF increases it, but that's relative, I don't know what the absolute values/delta is.

Regulatory role of exercise-induced autophagy for sarcopenia

Sarcopenia is an aging-related disease, described as the progressive reduction in mass and strength of skeletal muscle. Sarcopenia is typically charac…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Deleted member 316]

So a good way to incorporate this is during the week when you have scheduled breaks at work have your pulses either at the recommended intervals or the 16/8 IF way, and on weekends when you're busy doing stuff extend the fast? Best of both worlds.

 

[Antti]

So which is better, muscle or autophagy for us over forty guys? Can't we just split the difference and pulse feed half the days a week and intermittent feed the other half?

I would imagine separate blocks for different goals would be the best for everyone.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I've posted on this before but I've hung out in the developed world a lot including with some seriously huge bodybuilder types. These guys don't eat a lot of meat or dairy because they can't afford it, but they eat a lot, primarily grains with some vegetables. They do consciously eat more so three cups of beans and rice (at least) would be a normal meal for them, with what we would regard as a tiny bit of meat added most meals. (In general terms, the meat for a meal shared by a family fits in the palm of one hand.) I've estimated their protein intake at <50g daily even though they are big guys. Maybe I'm underestimating the beans and rice proteins

I wonder how they do keeping mass on as they get older, over 40?

 

[LukeV]

I wonder how they do keeping mass on as they get older, over 40?

I don’t know, the bodybuilders were certainly up to their 30s, it’s possible some were older but I can’t say for sure. I read somewhere that ~15% of calories from protein is the threshold for muscle building (warning: possible bro science) and I can’t see that these guys were getting that unless their local grains and pulses (Africa and Asia) were higher in protein than what see in our typical rice and wheat

 

[Deleted member 316]

So an average lunch. Salad and some protein. An amino shot a few hours later. And then a good supper with heavy protein would fit the bill. Especially for guys working hard during the day who don't want to feel weighted down from a big lunch.

 

[silveraw]

Execise + IF increases it, but that's relative, I don't know what the absolute values/delta is.

Oddly enough I don't recall seeing anyone give a good value for that, it is always presented in a binary statement kinda way. Since binary statements are rarely correct so I thought it might be fun to dig into it.

When I look up the research on it in humans it is pretty sparse, mixed, and frankly goes way over my head.

This article seems to say that fasting increases some markers of autophagy by 30% and also increased markers of decreased autophagy by 10% over a 72 hour fast. Fasting Increases Human Skeletal Muscle Net Phenylalanine Release and This Is Associated with Decreased mTOR Signaling

This article starts by pointing out that mice lose 20% of their weight over a 48 hour fast (for context most fasting studies are done on mice and yeast) and that humans lose 2% of their weight over 4 days. Surprisingly some human participants showed no increased autophagy levels at 48 hours. At 4 days some white blood cells showed signs of autophagy, while others did not. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15548627.2016.1271513

...and that is about it for human studies.

So if I'm understanding those correctly, if you want to have an increase above your basic exercise induced/caloric restriction baseline of autophagy, you have to fast for at least 48 hours. But technically, any "fasting protocol" that results in a caloric restriction will increase autophagy, but it is less due to any fasting magic for anything less than 2 days.

If I do bad "science" and extrapolate the weight/fasting ratios of mice to humans, if you want to mimic a 48 hour mouse fast with your human body it would need to be about 40 days long. Maybe those bible fasting people are onto something!

 

[North Coast Miller]

Exercise and exercise training-induced increase in autophagy markers in human skeletal muscle - PubMed

Moderately trained male subjects (mean age 25 years; range 19-33 years) completed an 8-week exercise training intervention consisting of continuous moderate cycling at 157 ± 20 W for 60 min (MOD; n = 6) or continuous moderate cycling (157 ± 20 W) interspersed by 30-sec sprints (473 ± 79 W) every...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'd need a lot of detail before fasting only to trigger autophagy, when it is already believed/proven that autophagy is a major contributing effect of exercise responsible for fending off many age-related health disorders.

How much more effective? Can it even be quantified?

 

[Deleted member 316]

Using myself as an example. If I'm 16/8 fasting would I be better off with a good protein shake at noon, a shake for the drive home around 1530-1600, and supper around 1900-2000. With some bcaa in between. Or a shake at noon, bcaa around 1530-1600, and a good supper later?
I like to use shakes during the day as they are portable, convenient, and don't take up much room.