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Barbell PTTP cardio

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Andrew Duncan

Andrew Duncan

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Revisiting Power to the People for the next few months. Just wondering what type/how much cardiovascular exercise is recommended with the program; doesn't seem to be anything in the book about it.

I'm doing PTTP three days per week (all my schedule will allow), only 5x2 (i.e. no bear). Current short term goals are to progress with PTTP, and physically prepare myself as best I can for a smooth transition back to full time labouring work at the end of the uni semester (approximately 7-8 weeks away).

I have been rucking 2-3 days a week for the past few months; I'm really enjoying this and would like to continue so long as it won't interfere with my strength work. I would also like to keep doing some swings in an S&S format - I can take or leave getups, never really got much out of them.

Any help, as always, is appreciated.
 
Good question. You are right PTTP book does not talk about the cardio. I am on PTTP program now and I do steady state, MF heart rate, cardio 4-5 days a week. And it does not seem to affect my strength training. Probably the case with you to with your rucking too. I would say experiment it and see how you feel.

Also I am not sure if three times a week is good enough to call it PTTP. I may be wrong here.

I am interested in what others are saying too.

@Steve Freides @Steve W. @Geoff Chafe to tag a few.
 
@Abdul Rasheed, I ran regularly for a few decades. I generally felt like it took more from me than it gave me. I believe some cardio is good for a person, but I find relaxed walking gives me most of what I need. I supplement with a very small amount of running, a 5-minute run (if that) done a couple of times per week. My resting pulse was 48 the last time I checked it, PB is around 110/60.

The protocols of Strong Endurance, IMHO, hold great promise - health benefits without the downsides.

-S-
 
Since @Abdul Rasheed tagged me, here's my $0.02:
Any long easy distance should be fine and probably synergistic, as long as you keep it easy.

Swings you have to be a little more careful about since they overlap so much with DL. Maybe start with 5 sets of 10, or 10 sets of 5 with a heavier bell and see how it feels in conjunction with DL, then adjust from there. Do the DL first if doing DL and swings in the same session. Depending on your individual situation, including non-training stress/recovery factors, you may be able to add swing volume over time, or may have to keep it more minimal to moderate.

Everything is a balance, so when two exercises overlap, you have to set priorities (which might be one over the other or both equally in moderation) and calibrate your efforts accordingly in terms of load, volume and frequency.
 
I lost a lot of work capacity doing PTTP, but to be fair, I was also coming of a layoff from strength training of about six months. I made good strength gains and peak strength is not my main goal. PTTP served its purpose to consistently dedicate to lifting again.

Walking and hiking works for me. Swings at the end of Barbell practice works well.
 
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Okay, here's what I'm thinking so far:

M - PTTP; Ruck (later in day)
T - Heavy swing session (considering the swing protocol outlined here - Make Every Rep Count: Preparing for the TSC | StrongFirst)
W - PTTP; Ruck
Th - Heavy swings
F - PTTP; Ruck
Sat/Sun - Rest/variety/activities as needed

I rucked three days per week while following S&S and found it didn't interfere - if anything, they appeared to benefit from each other. I don't see an issue here either.

It appears the general contention is that PTTP should be done 5 days per week, which is my reasoning for having heavy swing days in lieu of the T/Th PTTP sessions. Volume can be adjusted based on how I'm recovering - same with the rucking (e.g. walk rather than ruck if I'm feeling a bit beat up).

Any suggestions?
 
krg said:
If I was limited to lifting 3 days a week and wanted to try and aggressively increase my deadlift I would be tempted to do deadlifts and KBs on the same day as laid out in the Vodka and Pickles plan

Kettlebells and Deadlifts Go Together Like Vodka and Pickles | StrongFirst

I would think that rucking 3x a week would cover your cardio needs adequately.
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Agreed. If you are not doing almost daily practice PTTP loses a lot of its effectiveness and if you cannot commit to 5 days a week it t may not be the program for you.
 
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You might consider a Easy Strength. While often done as a 4-5 day per week program, people do it 3x/wk and still make progress, albeit slower.
 
I've used PTTP 3x per week in the past with success. I also haven't touched a barbell in about 5 years. I'm using what I know works for me - a simple PTTP linear progression - until I regain the barbell strength that I had previously. I'm not so much trying to 'aggressively increase my deadlift' as much as I want to be strong in general. I've read somewhere that if you 'just want to be strong', PTTP is for you. To that effect, I believe I get more out of sets of 5 rather than singles. Hard to describe, all very subjective - I suppose I just 'feel' better. Heavy singles have gotten me stronger in the past, but generally only in the context of heavy singles. I reached a point where improving my 1RM (with singles) did not translate to improved performance at work or other activities. In other words, as much as I appreciate the suggestions, I'm sticking with the PTTP cycle for the time being - Easy Strength might be worth a look when I'm back at work though.

@Steve Freides, are the Strong Endurance protocols compatible with PTTP? I notice many people on the forum have combined PTTP and S&S successfully (typically either 2-3 days per week of each, or in 2 week alternating blocks), so perhaps this is an option for myself. What do you suggest?
 
Andrew Duncan said:
@Steve Freides, are the Strong Endurance protocols compatible with PTTP? I notice many people on the forum have combined PTTP and S&S successfully (typically either 2-3 days per week of each, or in 2 week alternating blocks), so perhaps this is an option for myself. What do you suggest?
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I suggest you attend Strong Endurance. :)

A variety of ways to implement SE ideas are presented, and some people report success doing some of the "easier" versions first in a lifting session, following by strength training. I've done a bit of this myself and really like it.

-S-
 
Andrew Duncan said:
I've read somewhere that if you 'just want to be strong', PTTP is for you. To that effect, I believe I get more out of sets of 5 rather than singles. Hard to describe, all very subjective - I suppose I just 'feel' better. Heavy singles have gotten me stronger in the past, but generally only in the context of heavy singles. I reached a point where improving my 1RM (with singles) did not translate to improved performance at work or other activities.
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An interesting perspective, @Andrew Duncan, and I can relate to what you're saying. I'm currently in week #2 of Surovetsky, and yesterday's volume day was an interesting experience. (Surovetsky calls for a volume day and a heavy day, one of each in your training week.) I'm 63 years old, compete raw (no belt) at 66 kg (146 lbs.) and am about 69 kg (152 lbs.) when not approaching a competition. My recent DL 1RM is 162.5 kg (358 lbs.)

Week #1 called for 5 x 5 at 70%, which I rounded up to 245 lbs., and did a new set about every 4-5 minutes, thus around 20 minutes to complete. Because Surovetsky calls for a very light touch of the weights at the bottom, so light that you almost can't hear the plates touch, it's about 30 seconds of time under tension per set. This week, the weight went up to 255 lbs. and I went every 2:30, so only two minutes of rest between sets - that's a short enough rest period to really pump up certain muscles, and it also feels like some bizarre kind of strength-endurance, roughly 3.2 tons of deadlifts completed in 10:30. It's definitely a different thing than heavy singles.

Given the choice of spending 10 minutes doing 200 x 24 kg snatches or this 5 x 5, you see two different sides of sub-maximal strength activity. And interesting to do the math - you move more weight, and you move it further, doing the SSST but, hey, you don't get to deadlift.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the combination of the two - one day volume, one day heavy - is certainly part of the magic of the Surovetsky program. And I think that what you're doing by focusing on 5's and not on heavy singles sounds like you've definitely found a good thing for yourself. So, in a funny way, and to refer back to my earlier reply on this thread, I really do think that 5's are cardio.

-S-
 
@Steve Freides .....you suggested the Surovetsky to me as an option for a 2 day week deadlift. I'm in week 6 and really like it....have you done it before as an experienced deadlifter?
I haven't as a novice but liking the combo of a heavy day and volume day. In another thread recently you mentioned 1rm testing.....I based my numbers of a predicted max based on what I did almost a couple years ago and worked from a 120kg which is 1.5 bodyweight near enough. My top number in latter weeks for Surovetsky is 126kg and then testing a 1rm in the last week.
I'm thinking about 135....would you agree? But is a 1rm test a do or die sort of thing? That is if I make that quite easily go a bit heavier until it won't budge. Thank you
 
1RM testing is a highly personal thing - not everyone goes all out, and if you watch me do mine even at competitions, I don't do the big psych thing, just calmly approach the bar. I prefer to save the all-out for, well, I hope I don't ever need that.

Do what feels good. If you get 126 kg and you want to try 130, do that, and then you can always wait 10 minutes and try 135. And, heck, if that goes, you can wait another 10 minutes and try 140!

-S-
 
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In ETK, p 157, Pavel says "When you are in the PTP phase, jump rope and/or do interval sprints for your conditioning." He then goes on to detail a rather hard interval sprint session done on a treadmill by a KB snatch record holder, and ends the section by saying "Naturally, you will have to do this at least three times a week if you are not doing your swings and snatches at the moment."
 
It might be personal preference, but I recently re-added jump-rope as my endurance work and love it. For some reason it makes me feel a bit lighter on the feet, and it is a lot less hard on the knees compared to running (don't get me wrong, I love running but my knees get a bit too sore for comfort nowadays after any decent distance). I am running a PTTP-ish program with front squats only, and doing bench press 2x/wk with higher volume, and rather than take anything away from the overall program, the light endurance work seems to aid recovery.

My HR during the session naturally trends below the maffetone target levels, so I add in some double unders on the minute marks to get a bit of a "kick".
 
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