Timo Keskitalo
Level 6 Valued Member
Hello,
I was hoping to reach Mr. Tstatsouline himself, but maybe someone of you can help.
I came accros the PttP book and bought the idea of muscle tension and relatively low speed. I’ve tried it out now on all the main moves. For Squat and deadlift it seems to work, but after one try it seemed that I could not use my pecs(? /chest muscles, I’m not familiar with muscle names) properly, barely at all it felt. I improved my SQ 145kg and DL 140kg sumo but benched only 110kg, 115 rose maybe 2 cm. (Some ig from squat 140 and 145: Timo Keskitalo on Instagram: “Tiukka 140 ja tiukempi 145. Uusi tuleminen ja takana reilu vuosi treeniä johon mahtuu hölmöilyäkin. Enää 20kg jälessä. #raw #seniori…” )
Today I’m going for traditional DL, hoping to get 170kg, maybe more. 8 weeks ago I squatted 137,5kg after 5s 6r 105kg and benched 115kg after 5s 6r 85kg. The difference with this tensioning stuff is that I used to get bruises from the belt during heavy SQ and DL training, so clearly I haven’t used my body as well as I could have. I mainly don’t use belt in BP, but in heavy BP and SQ i use wrist wraps and still get some elbow muscle problems. My wrists turn and I’ll have to address that. About sumo I’ve felt that I can’t use my legs correctly anymore and I’ve lost a lot of flexibility during my break.
Questions: Is the slow speed applicable to bench? Is the reason not to talk about bench press in PttP, that it is too technical? Is the slow speed applicable to assistance work (more of this to come)? Am I supposed to get more reps and sets off me as my body gets used to the all out tension? I read also about the Faleev 5x5 training, and I think I’ll follow that with 4 days a week but with some assistance.
Now my background is that I started training in around 1999 (40yrs old), I’ve had some proper IPF powerlifters as training buddies and friends, I’ve taken a lot of advice and read about lifting. But still it seems that for SQ and DL I haven’t used my body tension enough, not even close. I’m expecting great improvement now that I’ll apply this. In 2009 I was at my best, doing around SQ 165kg, BP 120 from mark, DL 185, body weight maybe 80kg +/-2kg. Now around 84kg, I'm not built for lifting, 176cm tall. The results were far from great, but I was happy with those levels. At that time my best SQ set was 6s 5r 130kg BP around 6s 5r 100 with belt. Especially for bench it felt my max should’ve been more. After base training I moved on training with gear, so the absolute max could maybe be little better. For some reason I didn’t get much out of gear (PB around 195+130+205) and I didn’t really compete. After 2009 I started running more and more and was aiming for marathon at 4 hours in 2012 but got sick before d-day. I did some lifting in the winter of 2012-2013, but after that practically a total break in lifting until Nov. 2017. My raw DL was slightly better with close stance but I started to sumo because you can use SQ gear in sumo DL when wearing the backside in front. Now the idea is to go raw.
My technique has been ok, I’ve tried to respect empty bar and flexed(? stiffened) my body while lifting, but the tempo has been fast. I’ve always started with empty bar with 20kg rises. After 50 % of max I’ve used around +10 % max rises and reps 5-10 depending on the work out set length. For heavy lifting reps of 3 usually. Never less than the work out. Nowadays I’ve tried to learn snatch as warm up for training, and before that some rotations of legs/hips (rolling of knee outside body) and rotations of back with stick to get some stretch for shoulders. When I was younger I made only some quick stretches and started lifting. And for assistance I’ve used mainly the bar and body weight, e.g. dips and pull ups. As I’ve gotten older a sort of hyper extension and hanging leg raises or sit ups in almost every work out and less of bis. Sometimes other equipment also.
Recently the week has been MON heavy SQ light BP, WED H BP (L DL only recently), FRI L SQ H DL, with some assistance work that comes to mind. I’ve snapped my acromioclavicular joint 2,5 years ago and went through operations. There is a clear lack of power in my left side/hand.
The total sets has been around 30 in training, and duration anywhere between 1-2 h depending on work out intensity. Light week has been every 4 weeks, when I started again it was every 3 weeks. I’ve used a lot of excel during the years and planned my training, and defined levels of roughly 5x8x70% and 5x5x80%, 1-2x3x90% and so on for targets. Once I got through the basic training of going through 6x2x80% with 20 s intervals to 6x6x80% 3-5 mins intervals while training once a week the main move; so during 6 weeks. If I reach a certain work out I’ll approximate my max from those levels. And sometimes I max out and usually get the target. Maybe I haven’t maxed out frequently enough because I haven’t competed.
The slow movement will reduce set length for sure, in DL and SQ a 5 feels like 8-10. So the total volume will drop radically. Will I get any of it back if I get used to slow motion? Also the warm up sets feel harder, and with slo-mo I can use +20 kg rises up to 75-80 % of max. At least that’s how it feels after this short try out. As an example my last hard SQ was 8x70, 8x85, 5x100, 5x115, 4x3x125, 2x4x110 (SxRx). Then I squatted the slow style 140 and 145 after a light week.
Back in the day I’ve tried out verkhojansky (?) beginner program or some sheiko that I’ve found and I like that type of training. Nowadays when I calculate the volumes (above roughly 50% lifts) I get averaging roughly 4-6 tons a week per move, and around 160 – 200 lifts a week monthly (considerably less than sheiko). If I try to apply the 5x5 program lifts will be roughly 140 a week and when I try to max out some weeks 4x4 and then 3 2 1 the lifts are 110 a week. While originally I was going to increase current volumes and in the spring time I was going to take the 6x2x80% to 6x6x80%, which would result in 190 lifts a week and 5,5 - 7,5 tons a week per lift. If I get my excel-training spot on. Squat has most volume and weight.
Is it really necessary to cut out all assistance work for 5x5? After all I’m no youngster anymore, my body at least in some point has been used to lifting, and I think I still should do a lot of rehab on my left shoulder and hand.
When I started out a year ago I was trying to apply old training methods with new supposed max. I deadlifted without belt, and so after nearly 5 months of training I was aiming for a max 3x150 in DL when my back cramped badly. After that I had some motivation problems; but I decided that my base level wasn’t nowhere close that I could apply my old habits. So I lifted a lot of 8-10 sets. After July I’ve been more regular, although only twice a week at start (H SQ H PB / L SQ H DL L PB), and got some of the base back. Sometimes I do for fun a work out that’s in Finland named after our famous javelin man Seppo Raty - 20x20, 19x30, … 1x210. Some people can get it through but for me the end has come at best in SQ 12x100 + 7x110 and BP 14x80 + 10x90 (back then). Usually I will not go to failure, but sometimes it happens, especially when I was younger. And the old guard was very pro occasional failure.
Now I’ve analyzed that for e.g. squat I’ve done 5x8x100, light (5x5x50%) , 5x6x105, 4x4x115, 2x4x110 + 4x3x120 +2x4x110, light, 5x6x110, 5x5x115, 4x3x125 +2x4x110, light; (+light workouts) until the end of Nov. This has been really close to the limits of my performance most of the time. Is this going too much ”pedal to the metal”? Should there be more progression that could be achieved with a constant 5x5 and going to try the last weight for a few weeks. How often you would have to step back down the ladder in that one? From PttP the answer would be 8-16 workouts. But that is all the time higher, while in 5x5 there is the lighter work out also to increase volume.
One problem with slow motion is that I can't do that "Seppo Raty". It just wouldn't be the same. Also the warm up sets I'd do much less. Because I do my warm ups before warm up I'd bench 8x40, 5x60, 5x80, 3x90 for low reps; and a 5x5x90 would be a near future target. For squat 5x60, 80, 100, 3x120 for low reps and 5x5x110 a near future target. This slow style 5x5 I was planning to start at relatively high for my ability(?) 5x5x100, and after 110 +light week go for 3 weeks 4x4 +light, then 3 2 1. So quickly another max out and afterwards I'd start maybe from 5x5x90. It seems that during the summer or even the rest of the year I'm not able to train as much as I'd like.
The light workouts have been a variation: sumo for DL, front squat, box-, stopping at the bottom- as warm up for DL, BP: military, narrow grip, weights hanging from bar with bands. And most of the time light, 50-70 % of max of the variation. A mistake maybe has been that I have changed them almost weekly, kinda like westsidebarbell would do?
The kindest of regards,
Timo Keskitalo, Finland
(I think you don't have representatives here)
I was hoping to reach Mr. Tstatsouline himself, but maybe someone of you can help.
I came accros the PttP book and bought the idea of muscle tension and relatively low speed. I’ve tried it out now on all the main moves. For Squat and deadlift it seems to work, but after one try it seemed that I could not use my pecs(? /chest muscles, I’m not familiar with muscle names) properly, barely at all it felt. I improved my SQ 145kg and DL 140kg sumo but benched only 110kg, 115 rose maybe 2 cm. (Some ig from squat 140 and 145: Timo Keskitalo on Instagram: “Tiukka 140 ja tiukempi 145. Uusi tuleminen ja takana reilu vuosi treeniä johon mahtuu hölmöilyäkin. Enää 20kg jälessä. #raw #seniori…” )
Today I’m going for traditional DL, hoping to get 170kg, maybe more. 8 weeks ago I squatted 137,5kg after 5s 6r 105kg and benched 115kg after 5s 6r 85kg. The difference with this tensioning stuff is that I used to get bruises from the belt during heavy SQ and DL training, so clearly I haven’t used my body as well as I could have. I mainly don’t use belt in BP, but in heavy BP and SQ i use wrist wraps and still get some elbow muscle problems. My wrists turn and I’ll have to address that. About sumo I’ve felt that I can’t use my legs correctly anymore and I’ve lost a lot of flexibility during my break.
Questions: Is the slow speed applicable to bench? Is the reason not to talk about bench press in PttP, that it is too technical? Is the slow speed applicable to assistance work (more of this to come)? Am I supposed to get more reps and sets off me as my body gets used to the all out tension? I read also about the Faleev 5x5 training, and I think I’ll follow that with 4 days a week but with some assistance.
Now my background is that I started training in around 1999 (40yrs old), I’ve had some proper IPF powerlifters as training buddies and friends, I’ve taken a lot of advice and read about lifting. But still it seems that for SQ and DL I haven’t used my body tension enough, not even close. I’m expecting great improvement now that I’ll apply this. In 2009 I was at my best, doing around SQ 165kg, BP 120 from mark, DL 185, body weight maybe 80kg +/-2kg. Now around 84kg, I'm not built for lifting, 176cm tall. The results were far from great, but I was happy with those levels. At that time my best SQ set was 6s 5r 130kg BP around 6s 5r 100 with belt. Especially for bench it felt my max should’ve been more. After base training I moved on training with gear, so the absolute max could maybe be little better. For some reason I didn’t get much out of gear (PB around 195+130+205) and I didn’t really compete. After 2009 I started running more and more and was aiming for marathon at 4 hours in 2012 but got sick before d-day. I did some lifting in the winter of 2012-2013, but after that practically a total break in lifting until Nov. 2017. My raw DL was slightly better with close stance but I started to sumo because you can use SQ gear in sumo DL when wearing the backside in front. Now the idea is to go raw.
My technique has been ok, I’ve tried to respect empty bar and flexed(? stiffened) my body while lifting, but the tempo has been fast. I’ve always started with empty bar with 20kg rises. After 50 % of max I’ve used around +10 % max rises and reps 5-10 depending on the work out set length. For heavy lifting reps of 3 usually. Never less than the work out. Nowadays I’ve tried to learn snatch as warm up for training, and before that some rotations of legs/hips (rolling of knee outside body) and rotations of back with stick to get some stretch for shoulders. When I was younger I made only some quick stretches and started lifting. And for assistance I’ve used mainly the bar and body weight, e.g. dips and pull ups. As I’ve gotten older a sort of hyper extension and hanging leg raises or sit ups in almost every work out and less of bis. Sometimes other equipment also.
Recently the week has been MON heavy SQ light BP, WED H BP (L DL only recently), FRI L SQ H DL, with some assistance work that comes to mind. I’ve snapped my acromioclavicular joint 2,5 years ago and went through operations. There is a clear lack of power in my left side/hand.
The total sets has been around 30 in training, and duration anywhere between 1-2 h depending on work out intensity. Light week has been every 4 weeks, when I started again it was every 3 weeks. I’ve used a lot of excel during the years and planned my training, and defined levels of roughly 5x8x70% and 5x5x80%, 1-2x3x90% and so on for targets. Once I got through the basic training of going through 6x2x80% with 20 s intervals to 6x6x80% 3-5 mins intervals while training once a week the main move; so during 6 weeks. If I reach a certain work out I’ll approximate my max from those levels. And sometimes I max out and usually get the target. Maybe I haven’t maxed out frequently enough because I haven’t competed.
The slow movement will reduce set length for sure, in DL and SQ a 5 feels like 8-10. So the total volume will drop radically. Will I get any of it back if I get used to slow motion? Also the warm up sets feel harder, and with slo-mo I can use +20 kg rises up to 75-80 % of max. At least that’s how it feels after this short try out. As an example my last hard SQ was 8x70, 8x85, 5x100, 5x115, 4x3x125, 2x4x110 (SxRx). Then I squatted the slow style 140 and 145 after a light week.
Back in the day I’ve tried out verkhojansky (?) beginner program or some sheiko that I’ve found and I like that type of training. Nowadays when I calculate the volumes (above roughly 50% lifts) I get averaging roughly 4-6 tons a week per move, and around 160 – 200 lifts a week monthly (considerably less than sheiko). If I try to apply the 5x5 program lifts will be roughly 140 a week and when I try to max out some weeks 4x4 and then 3 2 1 the lifts are 110 a week. While originally I was going to increase current volumes and in the spring time I was going to take the 6x2x80% to 6x6x80%, which would result in 190 lifts a week and 5,5 - 7,5 tons a week per lift. If I get my excel-training spot on. Squat has most volume and weight.
Is it really necessary to cut out all assistance work for 5x5? After all I’m no youngster anymore, my body at least in some point has been used to lifting, and I think I still should do a lot of rehab on my left shoulder and hand.
When I started out a year ago I was trying to apply old training methods with new supposed max. I deadlifted without belt, and so after nearly 5 months of training I was aiming for a max 3x150 in DL when my back cramped badly. After that I had some motivation problems; but I decided that my base level wasn’t nowhere close that I could apply my old habits. So I lifted a lot of 8-10 sets. After July I’ve been more regular, although only twice a week at start (H SQ H PB / L SQ H DL L PB), and got some of the base back. Sometimes I do for fun a work out that’s in Finland named after our famous javelin man Seppo Raty - 20x20, 19x30, … 1x210. Some people can get it through but for me the end has come at best in SQ 12x100 + 7x110 and BP 14x80 + 10x90 (back then). Usually I will not go to failure, but sometimes it happens, especially when I was younger. And the old guard was very pro occasional failure.
Now I’ve analyzed that for e.g. squat I’ve done 5x8x100, light (5x5x50%) , 5x6x105, 4x4x115, 2x4x110 + 4x3x120 +2x4x110, light, 5x6x110, 5x5x115, 4x3x125 +2x4x110, light; (+light workouts) until the end of Nov. This has been really close to the limits of my performance most of the time. Is this going too much ”pedal to the metal”? Should there be more progression that could be achieved with a constant 5x5 and going to try the last weight for a few weeks. How often you would have to step back down the ladder in that one? From PttP the answer would be 8-16 workouts. But that is all the time higher, while in 5x5 there is the lighter work out also to increase volume.
One problem with slow motion is that I can't do that "Seppo Raty". It just wouldn't be the same. Also the warm up sets I'd do much less. Because I do my warm ups before warm up I'd bench 8x40, 5x60, 5x80, 3x90 for low reps; and a 5x5x90 would be a near future target. For squat 5x60, 80, 100, 3x120 for low reps and 5x5x110 a near future target. This slow style 5x5 I was planning to start at relatively high for my ability(?) 5x5x100, and after 110 +light week go for 3 weeks 4x4 +light, then 3 2 1. So quickly another max out and afterwards I'd start maybe from 5x5x90. It seems that during the summer or even the rest of the year I'm not able to train as much as I'd like.
The light workouts have been a variation: sumo for DL, front squat, box-, stopping at the bottom- as warm up for DL, BP: military, narrow grip, weights hanging from bar with bands. And most of the time light, 50-70 % of max of the variation. A mistake maybe has been that I have changed them almost weekly, kinda like westsidebarbell would do?
The kindest of regards,
Timo Keskitalo, Finland
(I think you don't have representatives here)
