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Barbell PTTP + FPP (Fighter Pullup Program) + Kettlebell Conditioning?

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deadliftheavy500

deadliftheavy500

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Hey everyone. Since my access to a squat rack will no longer be consistent once again, I've decided to do PTTP in conjunction with the Fighter Pullup Program (which I will "cycle" after the first month). Could I also add kettlebell conditioning to this kind of regimen? I was reading about Dan John's 10,000 Kettlebell Swing Workout (link below),

The 10,000 Swing Kettlebell Workout | T Nation

and I'm sold on KB's. However, I really don't think I'm going to be able to sustain that kind of program based on the amount of sleep/food I'm getting.

Do you guys have any suggestions as to what kind of kettlebell conditioning I could do? Also, do you guys recommend any specific forms of cycling for PTTP? I was thinking of doing either a linear cycle until I peak or a 4 forward/3 back structured wave cycle. I'd be starting my deadlift at 260 and press at 90, if that helps.
 
10,000 swings is a stand alone program and if done correctly you really can't do anything else. If your interested in PTTP but feel it may have a few holes look up Easy Strength/Even Easier Strength by @Dan John. It adds in a few extra movements done for low sets and reps but you still slowly progress. If you don't have a squat rack this may be the best for you. Deadlifts, press, chin ups done for 2 x 5 or 5,3,2 would work well, ab rollers would be great as well. Snatch/swings for 50-75 reps and finish with a carry. Look up the program, I think it could really work well for you if you are looking for just a little more.
 
Dan John once wrote:

“I’m going to do this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that and fail miserably.”

My suggestion - Keep it simple, smart. Do PTTP!, add some swings, all good.
 
Pavel Macek said:
Dan John once wrote:

“I’m going to do this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that and fail miserably.”

My suggestion - Keep it simple, smart. Do PTTP!, add some swings, all good.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You're right, I shouldn't try to do too many things at once. Should I keep the reps for swings in the 100-200 range per week?
 
for swings I have been doing between 6-10 reps every 30 seconds for 5-7 min, thats between 60-100 swings per training session. if your doing 2h swings kick it up to 8-12 reps. simple way to get a lot of work done in short order + works the lungs
 
Maine-ah KB said:
for swings I have been doing between 6-10 reps every 30 seconds for 5-7 min, thats between 60-100 swings per training session. if your doing 2h swings kick it up to 8-12 reps. simple way to get a lot of work done in short order + works the lungs
Click to expand...

Awesome. You do this every training session?
 
2-4 days of swings and 1 maybe 2 snatch sessions for my conditioning. but if I snatching weren't a goal of mine then I would swing like this a solid 5-6 days a week.
 
Hello again, the issue I see with your plan is too much lat involvement, all 4 exercises (Pull-Up, Swing, Deadlift & Press) require the lat to be engaged for optimal technique. I think you will start to lose strength and technique after a few weeks as fatigue becomes apparent, especially with your sleep and nutrition regime.

I am going to recommend this plan again; I believe these two programs are magic, they work so well they feel like cheating.
I believe programs using Deadlift Single's are much safer and overall better for people that can not yet pull 2 times their bodyweight, it allows the student to focus on technique and limits fatigue whilst producing remarkable gains in strength, often times better than 531 or 5x5.
Daily Dose Deadlift Plan | StrongFirst

I have just recently followed this program myself, I took my Get-Up from 28kg to 42kg in 12 weeks, more importantly I found it enjoyable, stress free, simple to follow and have noticed great improvements in other areas on my life, Rucking, Crawling and MMA especially.
How to Get Better at Everything by Training Multiple Get-Ups | StrongFirst

Here are some video's on the importance of Sleep and Food, as well as a video on 10 minute walks, which is where I would suggest you start with conditioning, at least till you can power walk a mile in 12 minutes comfortably.



RHINO'S RHANTS - "TEN TALKS" - Ten Minute Walks Will Change Your Life
 
CraigAlexanderWigham said:
Hello again, the issue I see with your plan is too much lat involvement, all 4 exercises (Pull-Up, Swing, Deadlift & Press) require the lat to be engaged for optimal technique. I think you will start to lose strength and technique after a few weeks as fatigue becomes apparent, especially with your sleep and nutrition regime.

I am going to recommend this plan again; I believe these two programs are magic, they work so well they feel like cheating.
I believe programs using Deadlift Single's are much safer and overall better for people that can not yet pull 2 times their bodyweight, it allows the student to focus on technique and limits fatigue whilst producing remarkable gains in strength, often times better than 531 or 5x5.
Daily Dose Deadlift Plan | StrongFirst

I have just recently followed this program myself, I took my Get-Up from 28kg to 42kg in 12 weeks, more importantly I found it enjoyable, stress free, simple to follow and have noticed great improvements in other areas on my life, Rucking, Crawling and MMA especially.
How to Get Better at Everything by Training Multiple Get-Ups | StrongFirst

Here are some video's on the importance of Sleep and Food, as well as a video on 10 minute walks, which is where I would suggest you start with conditioning, at least till you can power walk a mile in 12 minutes comfortably.


Click to expand...

I like that plan. That would also make it easier to do FPP and swings, right?

EDIT: I can also walk a 10-minute mile, lol. I'm not THAT out-of-shape (yet).
 
The FPP may hinder your Deadlift and vice versa, as you are using the same muscle groups for both, your nervous system may also not be ready for that amount of volume yet, which can make you sick, especially if your nutrition and sleep are not optimal.
Please consider one or the other, maybe try 10 weeks of Deadlift Singles then 5-10 weeks of FFP, though, Deadlifts in my opinion are superior for overall strength. Swings on the other hand, could be a nice warm up.
Another option is just running Daily Dose Deadlift and Multiple Get-Up's for 12 weeks, if you did not feel fatigued during that time then try it again with low volume Swings, if you still felt no fatigue, try it again with Swings & FFP.
You may need to test your 1 mile walk, that seems very fast, are you using a 'silly walk' technique like the Olympics or a military style march?
 
CraigAlexanderWigham said:
The FPP may hinder your Deadlift and vice versa, as you are using the same muscle groups for both, your nervous system may also not be ready for that amount of volume yet, which can make you sick, especially if your nutrition and sleep are not optimal.
Please consider one or the other, maybe try 10 weeks of Deadlift Singles then 5-10 weeks of FFP, though, Deadlifts in my opinion are superior for overall strength. Swings on the other hand, could be a nice warm up.
Another option is just running Daily Dose Deadlift and Multiple Get-Up's for 12 weeks, if you did not feel fatigued during that time then try it again with low volume Swings, if you still felt no fatigue, try it again with Swings & FFP.
You may need to test your 1 mile walk, that seems very fast, are you using a 'silly walk' technique like the Olympics or a military style march?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good idea. I'll do the Singles and Get-ups w/ Swings as a warm-up. And no, I can't walk a 10-minute mile, lol. I can definitely run it, though.
 
@Pavel Macek could you answer this question for me? My current PR for the deadlift is 300 x 8. I pulled this PR 3 weeks ago. At the time of my PR, I was 190 lbs., which would equate to a double-BW pull as a max (300*.0333*8+300=380).

However, since then it has been harder to get enough food in my system (sleep is a constant, so I don’t think that’s the issue here). About a week ago, I went to test my Deadlift max for another cycle of 5/3/1 (this was before I knew I would be without a squat rack and/or time). 275 was feeling too heavy that day, but I decided to work up to a max single anyway. The 345 I deadlifted that day was probably the biggest grinder of my life.

Now that my background is out of the way, my question is... should I use the 380 max calculation or the 345 single I pulled as the number to calculate my percentages off for the Daily Dose plan?
 
deadliftheavy500 said:
Now that my background is out of the way, my question is... should I use the 380 max calculation or the 345 single I pulled as the number to calculate my percentages off for the Daily Dose plan?
Click to expand...
Use the 345.

1) Calculators are a guideline and can be off (sometimes even a lot) and the farer you get away from your 1RM the more mistakes there are with calculators -> It's a realatively safe thing to base your 1RM on a 2RM or 3RM.
From a 8,9 or even 10RM though? The calculation most likely will be off.

2) You pulled the 345 on a "not so good" day. Calculating your lifts on that 1RM is a smart thing to do, because you will have other "not so good" days in your training (especially you with your food+sleep problems).
You did 531, so you should be familiar with the distinction of training max and real/competition max.
Consider the 345 your training max -> a max that you could lift every time, even on a bad day.
 
Kettlebelephant said:
Use the 345.

1) Calculators are a guideline and can be off (sometimes even a lot) and the farer you get away from your 1RM the more mistakes there are with calculators -> It's a realatively safe thing to base your 1RM on a 2RM or 3RM.
From a 8,9 or even 10RM though? The calculation most likely will be off.

2) You pulled the 345 on a "not so good" day. Calculating your lifts on that 1RM is a smart thing to do, because you will have other "not so good" days in your training (especially you with your food+sleep problems).
You did 531, so you should be familiar with the distinction of training max and real/competition max.
Consider the 345 your training max -> a max that you could lift every time, even on a bad day.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right. Thank you very much for clarifying that for me.
 
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