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Barbell PTTP Hurdle

rambam

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi there,

I just started the 7th cycle of PTTP for BP.

I was abroad and the first session of the cycle, I managed to do for BP:

100 KGs for 5 reps
90 KGs for 5 reps
80 KGs 5x5

After a long haul travel (from Asia to US, thus jet lag and about a 16 hours trip), I rested for close to 48 hours before hitting the gym again. At this point since my last BP session, 5 days had passed. For the second session of the cycle, I managed to do the following:

235 LBs for 3 reps
215 LBs for 5 reps
195 LBs 4 sets of 5

I managed to get to 240 LBs for 5 reps in the previous cycle so I was a bit bummed that I could not get 5 reps for 235. Having said that, how do I proceed from here? I am conflicted as I am still early on in the cycle.

Thanks!
 

WxHerk

Level 7 Valued Member
Get some more rest and trust the process.

I’m a military flyer, very well acquainted with jet lag. It usually takes several days for your body to truly recover. Just trust the process; you will soon return to your previous numbers and then resume increasing them.
 

cwheeler33

Level 5 Valued Member
we would need to see a lot more of your training logs with dates... depending on when you started this new cycle and how much recovery time you did between, you may have started to intensely. But yeah, that would be hard to see without history.

Like WxHerk said, long flights and jet lag do a number on your numbers. More rest and backing up a little is required when you travel that much.
 

rambam

Level 1 Valued Member
Thanks. For reference these are the numbers from the 6th cycle which ended one week before I started the 7th cycle:

190590580; 751; 6
2955905806
31005905808
41055955855
5955905806
61005905807
81055955856
91104 (4th spotted)1005903


Weights in KGs
 

cwheeler33

Level 5 Valued Member
Which program are you trying to follow, The Bear? Not shown is how many rest days between sessions. The bear is only 3 sessions per week. We also do not see how you are de-loading between cycles. And have you rotated the program with something else yet. It would be good to know your weight/size as well. I mean a 110kg Bench for a 65kg person is not the same as a 110kg Bench for a 100kg person.

Assuming you finished each cycle with a proper de-load week at the end of 3 weeks (3 sessions per week for Bear) and you just finished the 6th cycle... You may have hit your limit and need to go back to cycle #4 weights and start over from there. EG really deload, give the body time to properly recover, and refocus on technique. When you cannot make progress, go back a few cycles and start over. What works for me is 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

You might also want to consider doing standard PttP instead of Bear and just work strength and perfect technique.

Have Beyond Body Building a read, specifically Pavel's 5x5x5 program for some other ideas. For giggles contemplate this: Do program 1 for 4 weeks, then follow it up with Program 2 for 4 weeks. For each you will do 3 weeks waving your weights up, and the 4th week you deload (either cut the weight in half, or as Pavel prefers cut the volume drastically). Program 1 Bench Press, Rows, Squats. Program 2 Military Press, Dead Lift, Hanging Leg Raises.

Edit:
Sorry, I didn't see it at first. You really need to go back and re-read PttP. You did not properly back off on your second set. And if you were following Bear sets 3-17 would be further reduced. If you were following the standard PttP, it's only 2 sets of 5 reps where the second sets is reduced. Just that small detail alone will cause you to fail sooner.
 
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rambam

Level 1 Valued Member
Which program are you trying to follow, The Bear? Not shown is how many rest days between sessions. The bear is only 3 sessions per week. We also do not see how you are de-loading between cycles. And have you rotated the program with something else yet. It would be good to know your weight/size as well. I mean a 110kg Bench for a 65kg person is not the same as a 110kg Bench for a 100kg person.

Assuming you finished each cycle with a proper de-load week at the end of 3 weeks (3 sessions per week for Bear) and you just finished the 6th cycle... You may have hit your limit and need to go back to cycle #4 weights and start over from there. EG really deload, give the body time to properly recover, and refocus on technique. When you cannot make progress, go back a few cycles and start over. What works for me is 3 steps forward 2 steps back.

You might also want to consider doing standard PttP instead of Bear and just work strength and perfect technique.

Have Beyond Body Building a read, specifically Pavel's 5x5x5 program for some other ideas. For giggles contemplate this: Do program 1 for 4 weeks, then follow it up with Program 2 for 4 weeks. For each you will do 3 weeks waving your weights up, and the 4th week you deload (either cut the weight in half, or as Pavel prefers cut the volume drastically). Program 1 Bench Press, Rows, Squats. Program 2 Military Press, Dead Lift, Hanging Leg Raises.

Edit:
Sorry, I didn't see it at first. You really need to go back and re-read PttP. You did not properly back off on your second set. And if you were following Bear sets 3-17 would be further reduced. If you were following the standard PttP, it's only 2 sets of 5 reps where the second sets is reduced. Just that small detail alone will cause you to fail sooner.
Other than the first session, the second set is always close to 90% of the first set. My aim is to get standard PttP and when I have fuel in the tank, I add some sets for volume. I never add sets for volume when I m depleted, I make sure I am adding these sets for focus on technique more than anything else.

I am not sure why I "really need to go back and re-read PttP", specially that save for this 1st session I do back off for the second set. Sets 3-17 are about 80% of working set 1 (again what it says in PttP). The rounding up is due to what weights are available at the gym.

I also train 2-4 times per week (also as mentioned in the PttP book).

For further info, I am 77 KGs (started the program when I was 70.5) and my height is 5'7-5'8.

Re de-loading: as far as I understood, the start of each cycle is a de-load weight of the end of the previous cycle. That is what I have been doing. Do I need to have a different de-loading cycle in between cycles?
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
I am not sure why I "really need to go back and re-read PttP", specially that save for this 1st session I do back off for the second set. Sets 3-17 are about 80% of working set 1 (again what it says in PttP). The rounding up is due to what weights are available at the gym.
I believe they were referring to PTTP only having 2 sets per exercise. You seem to have mixed together "the bear" with "PttP".
 

cwheeler33

Level 5 Valued Member
Standard PttP is only the 2 sets of 5 reps, not more. And is 4-5 days per week. The Bear program in PttP is max 3 days per week, but the sets go much higher. Bear is usually 5-20 sets.

The numbers in your table suggest you are not backing off on the second set, which can cause a fatigue problem. So if the problem is that your gym doesn't allow you to do the suggested reduced sets conveniently, maybe try Dan John's version of PttP. He suggested you do 3 sets total with the same weight, but using a decreasing number of reps for each set: 5/3/2 reps with the usual 5 minutes of rest per set. It's just another way to skin the cat...

You're coming on up to the 1.5x bodyweight BP, which is really good. So progress will start to slow down. I'm not qualified on saying much past a 1.5x result...
 

cwheeler33

Level 5 Valued Member
forgot to mention deloading...
PttP I think the recommendation was 2 weeks PttP and then switch to KB's for 2 weeks. The KB cycle would be a form of de-load.

Alternate de-load: Not sure if it was mentioned in PttP or from one of Pavel's other works. For me I made more progress on 3 week cycles + 1 week deload. It allowed me to do PttP for 9 months straight. The de-load week is done for 2 sets at half the reps using your top weight of the cycle (half the volume, but keeps 100% intensity). So if you finished your cycle doing 5x100/5x90, then your de-load week would be 3x100/2x90 for all 5 sessions. If I were to apply this to the Bear, on the d-load week I would limit my session to 2 sets at the reduced rep count and drop all the other sets.

The strength and/or hypertrophy is developed during the recovery... But that means you need to let yourself recover...
 
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