Simply strong
Level 4 Valued Member
Is the power clean an acceptable deadlift variation in PTTP?
Perhaps done as 5 single reps rather than one set of 5 ?
Perhaps done as 5 single reps rather than one set of 5 ?
Barbell PTTP power clean
- Thread starter Simply strong
- Start date
- Status
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
My answer would be no: PTTP is a pure strength program and the power clean is not a pure strength lift; it's about generating power. I'm not saying it wouldn't provide benefits, but it would be too far removed from what PTTP is all about.
Simply strong
Level 4 Valued Member
Fair enough. My reasoning was that the swing isn’t a pure strength lift and it’s included daily in S&S.
Perhaps the version of the power clean as described here? I’d imagine this could almost be called a barbell swing and plugged into the S&S program.
Perhaps the version of the power clean as described here? I’d imagine this could almost be called a barbell swing and plugged into the S&S program.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
@Simply strong I feel like a program that includes daily power cleans would make significant demands on your ability to recover between sessions, of course volume and loading would be a key factor in determining how smoked you were afterwards.
From my own experience, I found that 10 sets of 10 one handed swings with a 40kg kettlebell would be hard work but I'd be able to do it again the following day, whereas doing 5 sets of 5 squat cleans with a 40kg barbell was significantly more taxing. Experience with the movement would definitely be a factor here, but so would the range of motion/distance covered by the weight per repetition: The clean and power clean both have more 'moving parts' than the kettlebell swing. Maybe hang muscle cleans with a light weight would get you closer to what a KB swing or clean feels like.
Are there particular reasons why you'd want to either omit the deadlift or include the power clean?
From my own experience, I found that 10 sets of 10 one handed swings with a 40kg kettlebell would be hard work but I'd be able to do it again the following day, whereas doing 5 sets of 5 squat cleans with a 40kg barbell was significantly more taxing. Experience with the movement would definitely be a factor here, but so would the range of motion/distance covered by the weight per repetition: The clean and power clean both have more 'moving parts' than the kettlebell swing. Maybe hang muscle cleans with a light weight would get you closer to what a KB swing or clean feels like.
Are there particular reasons why you'd want to either omit the deadlift or include the power clean?
cwheeler33
Level 6 Valued Member
PttP is just a simple template for strength. One should not get too caught up in certain details. I remember when people complained about replacing BB MP with BP...
You can use power cleans if you want. It is classified as a heavy pull.
I would not use the technique shown in the video posted.
The one worry is how technical this lift can be.. Do make sure you have a good coach watching over you if you choose to use it. It cannot be stated enough, the Olympic bb lifts and their variants are highly technical and less forgiving.
You will want to have 10 seconds of rest between reps. This means dropping the bar between each rep.
You can also change up the rep scheme a little to suit your your needs.
these are all PttP set/rep schemes: 2x5, 3x3 or 5,3,2 (do maintain the 3-5 min rest per set)
In fact 5,3,2 might be better suited for this exercise.
You must give a week of deload before you move onto a cycle of KB's.
You can use power cleans if you want. It is classified as a heavy pull.
I would not use the technique shown in the video posted.
The one worry is how technical this lift can be.. Do make sure you have a good coach watching over you if you choose to use it. It cannot be stated enough, the Olympic bb lifts and their variants are highly technical and less forgiving.
You will want to have 10 seconds of rest between reps. This means dropping the bar between each rep.
You can also change up the rep scheme a little to suit your your needs.
these are all PttP set/rep schemes: 2x5, 3x3 or 5,3,2 (do maintain the 3-5 min rest per set)
In fact 5,3,2 might be better suited for this exercise.
You must give a week of deload before you move onto a cycle of KB's.
Interesting... that's a lot more like a kettlebell clean than most barbell clean techniques.
I agree, if you're using it instead of a deadlift. In that case you'd definitely want to be doing cleans from the floor.
But generally I agree with this. It's a good exercise in many contexts, but not a good fit for this program.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I'm going to massively disagree.
The hang power clean (which is what the video is showing) is bio-mechanically very different from a swing or deadlift.
It's not a simple hip hinge at all.
It uses triple extension.
It's also a helluva lot more taxing.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
That's how decent BB hang clean should look, with triple extension of the ankles, hips, and knees, plus shoulder shrug.
See slow mo play back at 3:42.
BB cleans that don't use triple extension need to work on technique more.
Last edited:
Agree, and good cue to 3:42. There are a lot of things that are different between that and a kettlebell clean -- triple extension being one, catching with bent legs being another (Edit/Add: using a shrug of the shoulders is another)... but it does seem to help emphasize some of what is similar: an explosive hip extension being what lifts the weight, and generating that force in a relatively small range of motion, as opposed to the bigger ROM off the floor.
Last edited:
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Oh, I always dead clean my KBs from the floor, because I first learned to clean with BBs.
Not kidding.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Personally, there is no way I could do daily power cleans with any significant weight and recover enough to do it the next day.
And the paradox is that if you drop the weight enough to handle daily power cleans, it can actually make your technique worse because you can cheat (e.g. reverse curl) at lighter weights.
Using a more typical 50-60% of DL weight for PCs is less likely to have this cheating problem, but then you're back to the recovery issue....
Full squat cleans are easier to recover from, at least for me.
Last edited:
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Sets of 5 for the PC is pretty unorthodox.
I've never seen the PC coached for anything more than reps of 3.*
My Olympic lifting coach (who was an actual coach at the Olympics) had me do power cleans and hang cleans in triples and doubles.
Rippetoe also programs the PC in sets of 3.
*There are parallel "exercise sports" that have a completely different goal in their PC programming than generating max power.
Last edited:
cwheeler33
Level 6 Valued Member
Not a typical oly set rep/scheme for sure. But has been recommended by such as Dan John etc within context of general sport use... Not for Oly sport itself.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I'd have to read his thinking on that.
PC has been used as an "explosive builder" for general athletes for decades in low rep ranges -- after all, Rippetoe and Starr weren't writing for an Olifting audience.
But Dan John also does a lot of other unorthodox things.
- Status