PTTP program

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Papa Georgio

Level 5 Valued Member
Looks good Anna!

As far a the eccentric on the DL, I would think Pavel would still advocate dropping with control.

Trying to lower the deadlift slowly will get you hurt when your working with 5rm weights and above.

If you want to work your Hammies on eccentrics do RDL or good mornings

JMO
 

LukeV

Level 5 Valued Member
PTTP prescribes lifting heavy (80% average meaning 80%+ a lot of the time) for five rep sets so 3+ seconds up is where most people are going to be even if that wasn't an instruction. 3+ seconds down is more optional, such as for people like me who glory in the eccentric and love to touch the weight down as if it were a baby
 

Steve W.

Level 6 Valued Member
Yeah... like mine yesterday! (No, I don't always deadlift that slow...)

Well, here's my take on the rep speed thing. On the one hand, in most cases I don't think it makes sense to aritificially limit your rep speed. On the other hand, a heavy weight (relative to the individual) is going to move slowly and there is a skill in grinding out a heavy lift over 3-5 (or even more) seconds. So there is value in practicing the grind, especially for beginners. But I wouldn't ever recommend focusing during a lift on the time it is taking. Just focus on staying tight throughout the range of motion and grinding through it. It's easy to lose tension after an initial blast off the floor, or after passing the sticking point.

Getting a feel for the grind, even with lighter weights, prepares you for when you have no choice but to grind through a heavy lift. There's a process of disinhibition that takes place over time, where your body learns not to shut down when the bar slows down and to keep the tension up over an extended time.

I quoted @Anna C's post with the video above because I recall a video she posted earlier in her deadlifting development where she had not yet learned to grind through a lift the way she demonstrated in this one. It was with a lighter weight, but she reached a sticking point and was inhibited from maintaining her tension and grinding through it. In her earlier video, she easily made lifts with slightly lighter weights than the one she missed on, and I felt like she had enough to strength to make the lift if she could have just ground it out. Now here she is with a heavier weight and grinding at it until gravity submits to her will ;-).
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
I quoted @Anna C's post with the video above because I recall a video she posted earlier in her deadlifting development where she had not yet learned to grind through a lift the way she demonstrated in this one. It was with a lighter weight, but she reached a sticking point and was inhibited from maintaining her tension and grinding through it. In her earlier video, she easily made lifts with slightly lighter weights than the one she missed on, and I felt like she had enough to strength to make the lift if she could have just ground it out. Now here she is with a heavier weight and grinding at it until gravity submits to her will ;-).
Good memory and that's exactly right. Might have been this video where I did 250 for a single but failed at 260. Now my max single is 315 and probably 325 or 330, since I recently did a triple at 310 that moved faster that that 300 above.

How to grind is one of the many things I've learned this year. Also learned that while there are lots of ways to stray off the path of getting stronger, even if you stay on it, there are no shortcuts. You just have to put in the work and the time. But if you do that consistently, and with intelligent programming, it's amazing how long changes can continue to happen. I still feel like I have quite a ways to go.

I agree, on the time it takes for an individual lift. Occasionally it can be educational to deliberately slow down a lift, but most of the time you just want to have good control of it. So beginners go a little slower, then things speed up, then they slow down when it gets heavy, etc. I think the "3 to 5 seconds" mentioned in PTTP is just to emphasize focus and control, and not to rush through the lifts just because they are submaximal.
 

Abdul-Rasheed

Level 6 Valued Member
If my memory serves right Pavel's PTTP Professional book it discusses this. "The slower the lift, the greater the weight that can be lifted" and it explains why, for example force = mass * acceleration. More acceleration need more force. Using the same force if we want to lift more weight, we have no choice but slow down.
 
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IonRod

Level 5 Valued Member
If my memory serves right Pavel's PTTP Professional book it discusses this. The slower the lift, the greater the weight that can be lifted" and it explains why, for example force = mass * acceleration. More acceleration need more force. Using the same force if we want to lift more weight, we have no choice but slow down.
And this is why your bar speed can be used to judge if you can move up in weight. It will be different for everybody as some people are more explosive, but the more you train the more reference points you get and eventually better judge when a rep is so slow that you know that the next one will not be going.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
And this is why your bar speed can be used to judge if you can move up in weight. It will be different for everybody as some people are more explosive, but the more you train the more reference points you get and eventually better judge when a rep is so slow that you know that the next one will not be going.
Yes, very true and I use this with my trainees, mostly novices. I can tell if they're working at the right intensity (or if something is off that day) by the bar speed on each rep, and by how much it changes on the later reps compared to the first one.

For myself (Intermediate I guess), I find it's a lot like driving in snow or mud... there is a relationship between the amount of traction you have, how fast you're attempting to go, and how much horsepower is available to push/pull with. Learning to grind a rep is learning to get that initial traction to then keep pulling/pushing to rep completion.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
If my memory serves right Pavel's PTTP Professional book it discusses this. "The slower the lift, the greater the weight that can be lifted" and it explains why, for example force = mass * acceleration. More acceleration need more force. Using the same force if we want to lift more weight, we have no choice but slow down.
This is correct. PTTP Pro, published after PTTP, clarifies and expands on the issue of grinding or exploding.

And it goes without saying that any lifter must first learn to generate tension, to get and stay tight, before even considering trying to move the bar explosively.

-S-
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
@RollTideRoll

Step 1: Do your PTTP! and don't worry about anything else (other tools, programs, how longs, etc.)
Step 2: Continue with PTTP!, according to the instructions in the book, and enjoy the practice
Step 3: Post after you don't improve from cycle to cycle
I agree 100%. Providing one is getting some kind of cardio in the week, in terms of developing your strength and your body I don't think PTTP is surpassed by any of the other programs by Pavel, at least not by any of the major ones published in books.

Like the first post in this thread, I too am too tired from judo etc to run a full S&S program every day, but I ALWAYS have time for a few deadlifts and kettlebell presses.

I don't follow the proper PTTP program by doing 5 at one weight at 5 more reps at 80% of that weight, but instead do a series of singles at a heavy weight for myself, followed by some sets of presses with at least the 32kg bell. So, in a workout that lasts a mere few minutes I can keep myself stronger than virtually anyone I know.

It's funny how powerful is limit strength. It is deadlifting that has progressed me in S&S I reckon! Also, limit strength makes strength endurance challenges much easier to manage, since the strength endurance weights (like S&S swings) are so much lighter than what you're handling with limit strength training!

I have my bar set at 370lbs. I do singles with it. I set it down slowly but lift it a little faster. I hold it at the top for a few seconds too. I think some kind of grip endurance training counts for a judoka!

It's clear to me that the deadlift is the most efficient way to get strong.
 
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Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
@Steve W. : What do you mean by...
Using bigger jumps between sessions in each wave, and smaller jumps from start of one wave to the next, created a much wavier rhythm of easy, medium and harder sessions within each wave and each cycle.
Could you spell that out with numbers? Would that mean 5 kg jumps between sessions and 2,5 kg jumps between waves?
 

Steve W.

Level 6 Valued Member
Yes, there are a number of ways to cook it, depending on your individual max (for a higher 1RM, the same percentage jump is a bigger amount of weight), the length of the cycle, and how many steps forward and back your waves are.

But I've used basically the jumps you suggest (non-metric: 15lbs between steps/5lbs between waves) for 4 steps forward/3 steps back. I've also used 10lbs between steps and 5lbs between waves. I've never done 20lb steps. For percentage reference, this was working up to PRs of 425lbs on a regular olympic bar and 465lbs on a trap bar.
 

ian72

Level 1 Valued Member
I had been recently frustrated by low back pain after deadlifting. I have been doing PTTP for a couple weeks. I started really light, so I examined my technique. I watched pavels deadlift demo and realized I had been lazy. Today I activated my lats, my abs, and focused on being an immovable object and fully reset on every rep. It worked. Zero pain and the weight fealt lighter. Just had to post that.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I read the book but didn't follow the program. Instead I learned that you can get strong and fit with only two exercises, and by spending only a few minutes a day. After some hesitation I bought I bar and then more and more plates. I weigh 220lbs. I deadlift for a few reps at a time 370lbs, and I balance this out immediately after with kettlebell military presses at either 32kg or 40kg.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Right; it specifically says 3-5 on the way up, and drop on the way down. I was curious if Pavel still agrees with this. That is a SUPER slow deadlift
I lift it slow, but I'm also not lifting very heavy at only 370lbs. I think holding positions is good for strength building, as I learned from the TGU.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
:( Way to make a small guy feel even smaller, Kozushi. :D
One of my coworkers pulls 675lbs and he is only three quarters my size.

I'm not really sure what my target should be with deadlifts. I think as people suggest to me on these forums I should go as far as I can with it. At 220lbs the 370lbs deadlift, which I do from 2 to 5 reps depending on how I feel, is almost 1.7 times my bodyweight. I think it's a big help in judo to be able to pick up at least this much weight since it means I can move around my opponents who don't weigh anywhere near that much! One of my former professors of classical studies in his 70s now pulls 550lbs regularly at the gym. In any case I'd like to think that for a layman that 1.7 bodyweight is reasonable and useful for a pull, and it's "okay" for now. Without training harder it seems like I've hit a bit of a wall, like as for S&S where I do the swings with the 32 and the TGUs with the 40 - I think I could get to the swings with the 40 (I've done it before a few times) and the TGUs with the 48, but without a proper, disciplined effort and being occupied also with judo, and not having a pressing reason for it, it isn't happening.
 
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