all posts post new thread

Barbell PTTP routine setup confusion.

Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

Tanner01

Level 2 Valued Member
I am not exactly new to weight lifting but I still consider myself a beginner because I was never consistent. I basically haven't worked out for more than 2 months in a row and that was around 3 years ago. It's has mostly been on and off with no results for years.

More info about me:
- 28 years old
- Very weak (desk jockey for most hours of the day).
- My goal is hypertrophy but since I am weak and believe increasing my strength relative to my BW will better my life and general day-to-day, I figured I should do a strength based program for a few months before hitting Modified DeLorme from BBB or Russian Bear from PTTP (leaning more towards bear routine since I heard it increases strength as well as size better when compared to DeLorme which only increases size for the most part).

After reading PTTP book, I like the look of the PTTP program for strength but in planning my weights/waves/cycles I got confused how it is supposed to be set up.

In the book it says that a cycle shouldn't be less than 8 workouts and then it recommends the 4 up 3 down method (the parts I am confused about).

I chose to do wave cycling with 8 workouts per cycle using the 4 up 3 down method for 5 days per week (Mon - Fri) with 2x5 (second set 90%). I will run this for 8 weeks and then reevaluate my progress/goals.

My questions:
1. Is the 4 up 3 down method considered a mini cycle within the larger 8 workout cycle, meaning that I can progress my 5RM every 4 workouts (and therefore progress my 5RM twice in my 8 workout cycle) or would this be too much to handle since I will be working out 5 days per week and should therefore have a greater run-up to the new 5RM workout.

2. If I shouldn't progress every 4 workouts, should my 8th workout be the only progress I make on my 5RM?

An example of what I am asking. If my current 5RM for DL is 100 pounds, which option do I set it up as:

Option 1 (hit new 5RM every 8 days):
Day 1 - 70
Day 2 - 80
Day 3 - 90
Day 4 - 100
Day 5 - 80
Day 6 - 90
Day 7 - 100
Day 8 - 110 (new 5RM hit every 8 workouts)
Day 9 - 80
Day 10 - 90....

OR

Option 2 (hit new 5RM every 4 days but 8 workout cycle progress 10 pounds like in option 1):
Day 1 - 90
Day 2 - 95
Day 3 - 100
Day 4 - 105 (new 5RM)
Day 5 - 95
Day 6 - 100
Day 7 - 105
Day 8 - 110 (new 5RM)
Day 9 - 100
Day 10 - 105....

OR

Option 3 (new 5RM every 4 workouts but progresses double per 8 workout cycle compared to option 1 & 2):
Day 1 - 80
Day 2 - 90
Day 3 - 100
Day 4 - 110 (new 5RM)
Day 5 - 90
Day 6 - 100
Day 7 - 110
Day 8 - 120 (new 5RM)
Day 9 - 100
Day 10 - 110....

OR

Option 4 (new 5RM on the 7th and 8th workout, then reset):
Day 1 - 75
Day 2 - 80
Day 3 - 85
Day 4 - 90
Day 5 - 95
Day 6 - 100
Day 7 - 105 (new 5RM)
Day 8 - 110 (new 5RM)
Day 9 - 85
Day 10 - 90....
.....
Day 15 - 115
Day 16 - 120

OR, since I am a beginner, and weak with lots of room to grow, can I make shorter cycles like this (1 cycle per week with 5-10 pound jumps per cycle):

Option 5:
Day 1 - 70
Day 2 - 80
Day 3 - 90
Day 4 - 100
Day 5 - 110 (new 5RM)
Day 6 - 80
Day 7 - 90
Day 8 - 100
Day 9 - 110
Day 10 - 120 (new 5RM)
and then continuing this pattern until I can't hit 10 pounds jumps, then moving down to 5 pound jumps per week.


Any thoughts and advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 
Sounds like you're the perfect candidate for a beginner hypertrophy program. Choose something linear, keep the reps high, multiple sets, add minimum weight each workout, just aim to progress for as long as possible. It's hard to go wrong
 
Seconding the advice above with a slight twist - after true linear cycles stop working, switch to step cycles. They’re like linear cycles for intermediates.

But, what you need to keep in mind is eating. Eat more quality food and you’ll be able to work out better.
 
Thanks for the responses guys.

So, should I not be working on my strength? The reason I want to do strength despite my overall goal being hypertrophy is because I am very weak at the moment, as in, I can only just lift a little over half of my bodyweight for 5 reps with perfect form. I was able to lift heavier than that a while ago but sitting in front of a computer hasn't done me any favors and I used to have pretty bad form. I think a focus on strength would provide a better quality of life faster than a hypertrophy program. Is this just wishful thinking?

Also, @LukeV, I was just wondering why you recommend higher reps? I went on a Pavel book readathon with S&S, BBB, & PTTP and I noticed he recommends low reps for more sets not hitting failure with similar volume to what you would get with the higher reps. Can you explain why higher reps would be better so I understand please?

And lastly, is there a specific beginner hypertrophy program you guys can recommend? I can't exactly remember reading about any hypertrophy programs in BBB or the other books that used high reps and was linear (is Modified DeLorme linear?).

And can you confirm that I understand linear cycles properly: You start off at around 70-80% and then just add a set amount of weight per workout until you can't hit your desired number of reps, then repeat starting at 70-80% of the new rep max you have made. I used weight/resistance in this example but it could also be reps or sets or anything really.

@TheEnthusiast90 should I do more than one linear cycle before switching to step cycles?

Thanks again.
 
I forgot to add this to my previous post:

I also read in these forums, I think in multiple posts, that I shouldn't worry about hypertrophy training until I hit 2xBW in DL and similar adjusted levels for pressing movements. Any thoughts on this?
 
@Tanner01 As a physiological novice, any decent training stimulus will cause strength, hypertrophy, and stamina/“conditioning”/“work capacity” adaptations at the same time. Make the most of this effect.

Run PTTP with linear increases each workout. I prefer 2x5 at the same weight, using the second set of 5 as the “governor” for when to re-cycle, e.g. 5,3 (only 3 clean reps on second set), go back and start again +10 pounds where you started last time. You will be able to ride this for a while. In a few months you can get fancy: for now, enjoy the Novice Effect.
 
Thanks @Sean M . I will give that a try. Do you recommend 5 days per week Mon-Fri for this setup or would it be wise to do:
Day 1 - ON
Day 2 - ON
Day 3 - OFF
Day 4 - ON
Day 5 - ON
Day 6 - OFF
Day 7 - OFF
 
Thanks @Sean M . I will give that a try. Do you recommend 5 days per week Mon-Fri for this setup or would it be wise to do:
Day 1 - ON
Day 2 - ON
Day 3 - OFF
Day 4 - ON
Day 5 - ON
Day 6 - OFF
Day 7 - OFF
If it were me, I’d want to do at least 3 days, up to 5 days a week, whenever it can happen. If three in a row isn’t well tolerated, 2-on-1-off is a good pattern. Just 3x/week near the end of the cycle is natural.
 
So, should I not be working on my strength?
At your stage of development, I doubt you will notice any appreciable difference in strength development working in the rep ranges for hypertrophy, compared to a 'strength program' based on lower reps.

I think a focus on strength would provide a better quality of life faster than a hypertrophy program. Is this just wishful thinking?
In my view, yes. At your stage of development it is easy to build strength and muscle so why choose just strength.

I was just wondering why you recommend higher reps? I went on a Pavel book readathon with S&S, BBB, & PTTP and I noticed he recommends low reps for more sets not hitting failure with similar volume to what you would get with the higher reps. Can you explain why higher reps would be better so I understand please?
Keeping volume relatively high is the easiest path to hypertrophy. Pavel agrees with that and his Russian Bear is one way to achieve it - high reps but spread over a high number of sets. Once again, at your stage of development, I doubt you'll notice any difference from one approach to another, so I would recommend you keep it simple, including starting with a lighter weight so your joints, ligaments etc get a chance to toughen up as you go. I recommend three sets of 10+ plus reps with the last set going close to failure. For example, choose a weight you could do, say, 20 reps with. Do 10 reps, rest two minutes, do 10 reps, rest two minutes, do as many reps as you can. Next time add minimum weight (5kg, whatever) and do it again. When you can't complete three sets of 10, dial the weight back down close to where you started and do the program again. By the time you get bored, you will be strong and have packed on some beef. Then find another program. If you want to be a He-Man do five sets, but, as I say, I doubt you will notice much difference.

And lastly, is there a specific beginner hypertrophy program you guys can recommend?
As above, nice and simple, you can't go wrong.
 
Hi Tanner. I am sorry I did not read through the whole post , but I wanted to give you a quick response as I am around the same age as you are (a few years older), sit a lot for work, inexperienced with weight lifting, and have recently been doing PTTP (on my fourth cycle). It has been a great program for me. It is simple; doesn't take long, doesn't leave you feeling burnt out; doesn't work you too hard, which is good because I don't like working too hard. :) My two cents is don't overcomplicate it. Start with a linear cycle for your deadlift - choose a low enough weight so that you can peak at the end of the cycle. If you successfully complete the cycle, start a new cycle 10lbs higher - repeat.

For your press (I am doing overhead press), linear might prove a little difficult, so I recommend going with a wave (that's what I did).

With both, choose a low enough weight so you can build up momentum for your peak. No need to get too scientific with the math... Do the same thing 5 days a week.

Already I am feeling stronger and more confident lifting than before, and like you, would like some hypertrophy, so I am considering trying Faleev's 80/20 for a bit - but I feel I have found the perfect program for me with PTTP, and I see myself coming back to it, and sticking to this program for a long time.

My advice: don' overthink it, keep it simple, and just do a few cycles (the weeks will go by quickly), and you will come out a better man on the back end of it, and you can keep building on that work. Power to you!
 
@marcelotine thanks for the advice. 4 cycles is awesome! What kind of strength gains have you made for each cycle if you don't mind sharing?

I will be doing a linear cycle too.
 
@marcelotine thanks for the advice. 4 cycles is awesome! What kind of strength gains have you made for each cycle if you don't mind sharing?

I will be doing a linear cycle too.

On my 1st cycle (10 day cycle), I started with 165 lbs and was supposed to end with 210 lbs, but couldn't hit all 5 reps on the last day - I think I was just too tired that day and hadn't eaten properly. So i decided to play it safe and start only 5lbs higher on the next cycle.

Cycle 2 -(10 day cycle) Start weight 170lbs - Ending weight 215 lbs (hit two PR on this cycle)

On my 3rd cycle, after finishing 10 workouts, I decided to extend the cycle to 14 workouts as I knew I wouldn't be able to workout for the next month. I followed a linear cycle for the first 10 workouts. Starting weight 180 lbs, ending weight 225 lbs, I then did a structured wave cycle for the next 4 work outs to squeeze out five additional pounds from that cycle, and ended with 230 lbs. (3 PRs).

With my overhead press, I ended my first cycle with 80 lbs, 2nd cycle with 90 lbs, and cycle 3 with 105 lbs.. Multiple PRs on each cycle.

Full disclosure: I actually did not follow a strict wave cycle for my overhead press - in part because I wanted it to synch with my 10 day DL cycle (which is not necessary), and if you are doing wave your cycle needs to be 8, 12 or16 workouts long, so i got a little creative, picked my end goal and worked backwards from there with a mixture of wave and step...

Still have a long long way to go, but off to a pretty good start... Like you, I had never successfully completed a program before ..So this was quite empowering.

I am a little over 5.9, and around 155 lbs.
 
@Tanner01, a prediction - a 1-hour session with an SFL instructor and you will add 30% or more to your deadlift 1RM.

-S-
 
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom