Barbell PTTP/S&S alternate months

[Basil]

Background: 30 y/o, 5' 10" 180lbs, male. I've been working out pretty consistently for the past year as schedule allows. Starting Strength was my introduction, followed by PTTP and S&S.

Situation: I work offshore on a 28 days on, 28 days off schedule. I have been alternating between PTTP and S&S every 28 days. I have not been progressing much, if at all, with PTTP (I have seen some progress with S&S).

Current numbers -

Deadlift 245 x 5
Bench 100 x 5
TGU 24kg x 5
Swing 24kg x 20

I have been using deadlifts and bench for PTTP, with a wave cycling and 5-3-2. During my 28 day cycle I progress, but then when I return for the next cycle I have lost most of that progress.

Sometimes I'll start a new cycle 5 lbs heavier than the previous cycle. Unfortunately that means my progress for the year is only 5 lbs. each cycle for 6 cycles, if all goes well.

My main goal is a 450 lb deadlift and a 225 lb bench.

1) Any suggestions on maintaining my deadlift and bench strength for 28 days with kettlebells? Would push up progressions be an appropriate or helpful addition to S&S?

2) Where should I start at the beginning of a 28 day PTTP cycle? For example if I finish a bench/deadlift cycle at 100/245, should I start the next cycle at 80/200?

I know that Pavel recommends that you alternate PTTP and S&S every 14 days, but that is not practical for me.

 

[Timothy Friel]

Background: 30 y/o, 5' 11" 180lbs, male. I've been working out pretty consistently for the past year as schedule allows. Starting Strength was my introduction, followed by PTTP and S&S.

Situation: I work offshore on a 28 days on, 28 days off schedule. I have been alternating between PTTP and S&S every 28 days. I have not been progressing much, if at all, with PTTP (I have seen some progress with S&S).

Current numbers -

Deadlift 245 x 5
Bench 100 x 5
TGU 24kg x 5
Swing 24kg x 20

I have been using deadlifts and bench for PTTP, with a wave cycling and 5-3-2. During my 28 day cycle I progress, but then when I return for the next cycle I have lost most of that progress.

Sometimes I'll start a new cycle 5 lbs heavier than the previous cycle. Unfortunately that means my progress for the year is only 5 lbs. each cycle for 6 cycles, if all goes well.

My main goal is a 450 lb deadlift and a 225 lb bench.

1) Any suggestions on maintaining my deadlift and bench strength for 28 days with kettlebells? Would push up progressions be an appropriate or helpful addition to S&S?

2) Where should I start at the beginning of a 28 day PTTP cycle? For example if I finish a bench/deadlift cycle at 100/245, should I start the next cycle at 80/200?

I know that Pavel recommends that you alternate PTTP and S&S every 14 days, but that is not practical for me.

After the upcoming tsc I'm planning my training close to what you do. My cyles will be a little longer and instead of S&S I'll be running A+A snatch protocols. I wouldn't stress how fast you progress as long as your progressing. The problem comes when you stop progressing. At that point you need to reevaluate. Are you training for any type of upcoming competition? If not just let the goals come when they come. Think more long term in regards to your training.

In regards to your starting weight for each pttp cycle you could restest a 2 or 3 rep max your first session. Then start your cycle at 70-80% of your estimated 1 rep max. Personally I like to make 10 pound jumps. That may work for you since your running short cycles. If you tap out early just finish the cycle at 3x3 @ 90% of your 1 rep max. Hope this helps.

 

[Steve Freides]

If you can work some snatches into your kettlebell time, this may help maintain your DL - works for some people, not so much for others.

-S-

 

[Basil]

Thank you both for your insights. Timothy, at this time I am not training for competition, only gains.

I will try what you have suggested:

In regards to your starting weight for each pttp cycle you could restest a 2 or 3 rep max your first session. Then start your cycle at 70-80% of your estimated 1 rep max. Personally I like to make 10 pound jumps. That may work for you since your running short cycles. If you tap out early just finish the cycle at 3x3 @ 90% of your 1 rep max.

Steve - I'll give the snatches a shot and see if that helps maintain my deadlift. Any thoughts on maintaining bench numbers? Military Presses or push ups maybe?

 

[Manuel Fortin]

My suggestion would be to do a few months of S+S exclusively and then start alternating if you still want to do barbells. Your S+S numbers seem too low to push or maintain your barbell lifts. I once did 5 months of alternative S+S and PTTP (every 2 weeks). My deadlift numbers were close to yours when I started the program, but I was swinging the 32 at the time. Also, in your 24kg TGUs, you basically support 50 pounds with the arm extended. However, in your bench press, each hand must move 50 pounds. It is much more difficult to move a weight than to support it with the arm extended (ask anyone who failed a bench press rep!). I am not a professional trainer, but my impression is that the stimulus from your S+S month is too small to have your barbell lift progress or remain the same and that when you return to the barbell, you are basically starting from scratch again, or close to. If you can do S+S until you work regularly with the 32, your PTTP lifts may start to progress. Another suggestion is to do something other than S+S in the kettlebell month, so that the stimulus is larger. Maybe some presses and add snatches as suggest by @Steve Freides.

 

[ali]

This from Pavel you may find useful:
Kettlebells and Deadlifts Go Together Like Vodka and Pickles

 

[Basil]

Also, in your 24kg TGUs, you basically support 50 pounds with the arm extended. However, in your bench press, each hand must move 50 pounds. It is much more difficult to move a weight than to support it with the arm extended (ask anyone who failed a bench press rep!).

@Manuel Fortin This seems obvious now that you spell it out. You're right that I need to get my TGU stronger to maintain my bench numbers. I'll get up to the 32kg in TGU and swings (should be there soon), and add in some snatches as per @Steve Freides. If this doesn't work for my next PTTP cycle in November, then I'll try presses and snatches instead of S&S in December.

@ali I had the opportunity to do the Vodka and Pickles routine between PTTP cycles before and my deadlift skyrocketed. It brought me almost back to my previous max of 285 x 5 with little effort. If it was practical for me I'd alternate Vodka and Pickles with PTTP full time!