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Barbell PTTP - should the end of the linear cycle be difficult or easy?

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Tanner01

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I have recently started my first linear cycle of PTTP (I am a beginner). I have started at a low weight and am working my way up to a new 5RM. I planned on continuing the cycle until I could only get 2-3 reps and then deloading. I am peaking until I hit 2-3 reps because I think I can get the most strength this way which shouldn't be too difficult or taxing since I am a beginner.

My question is about running a linear cycle with peaking. As I understand it, PTTP is about very frequent, moderate intensity workouts where you lift increasingly heavier weights for 5 reps even though you could get 2+ reps more than 5 reps. So does that mean that I should still stop 2-3 reps under what I am capable of when I get to the end of the cycle and peak, meaning that I should only do 2-3 reps when I am lifting a weight I could do for 5 reps as my final workout before deloading or should I push it closer to failure since I will be deloading for a new cycle? I know that in the book it also says that I should take a few days off before starting a new cycle which would allow me to recover from lifting closer to failure in my final workout.
 
Forgot to mention I am working out every other day, so I will have 4 workouts one week, 3 workouts the next week, 4 workouts the week after that, etc.
 
I suggest you do like it's written. Always 5 reps until you don't get it. For a beginner it's not so important to do several very hard weeks.

The aim is to get around 15 workouts rising. (Maybe 10 in a linear cycle.) The trick is too start low enough and get the appropriate increment. A wave cycle would be a good option also.

In your plan it will be around four weeks cycle and a good time to deload. Enough "deload" will be to start almost as low as the first cycle.
 
Haven't done PTTP but what @Steve W. writes about it makes a lot of sense to me
Good point. Linear cycles are just long, drawn out waves. Continuous linear progression is not possible, otherwise we would all be carrying bulls around on our shoulders ;-).



This depends on the structure of the cycle.

One way I like to do structured wave cycles is with bigger jumps between sessions in a wave and smaller jumps between waves. So, in a 4 steps forward/3 steps back cycle, this might be 15lb jumps between sessions, but 5lb jumps between waves. So each wave goes up 60lbs, but the next wave starts 55lbs lower than the end of the first wave. The top session builds slowly, but there's a fast ramp in each wave.

This gives a nice rhythm of easy/medium/challenging throughout the cycle. You don't long drawn out stretches of easy sessions at the beginning, or a death march of tough sessions toward the end.

There are lots of ways to cook it, but I agree that linear, step and wave cycles are overlapping variations on the same recipe.

The Even Easier Strength/40 Day approach is another variation. Cruise along at a constant weight, when you feel strong on a given day bump up the poundage, then cruise along some more, etc. Nudge up the cruising weight slowly over time. Add in "same but different" specialized variety periodically.
 
So just to clarify, you don't recommend the peaking linear cycle from the book that says to keep upping the weight until I can't get 5 reps and then keep going with lower reps until I get only 2-3 reps? That as a beginner I should aim for my 5RM+5 pounds each cycle using 4/3 wave cycling, 5 days per week? I just assumed the linear cycle with peaking was the best bet for a beginner for maximum strength gain.

If wave cycling is better than linear with peaking, what do you think about 10 pound jumps per cycle for 2-4 cycles (or until they become too tough) and then switching to 5 pound jumps?

Thanks for the help.
 
So just to clarify, you don't recommend the peaking linear cycle from the book that says to keep upping the weight until I can't get 5 reps and then keep going with lower reps until I get only 2-3 reps? That as a beginner I should aim for my 5RM+5 pounds each cycle using 4/3 wave cycling, 5 days per week? I just assumed the linear cycle with peaking was the best bet for a beginner for maximum strength gain.

If wave cycling is better than linear with peaking, what do you think about 10 pound jumps per cycle for 2-4 cycles (or until they become too tough) and then switching to 5 pound jumps?

Thanks for the help.
Yeah, @Steve W. suggests to quickly go heavier and then back off again. Otherwise the first week is pretty easy and the last one really challenging. I am just passing it along as he is a trustworthy resource IMO.
 
Almost didn't find it... yeah I think it says that always lift until you feel that your form will break. And I think it's unnecessary. I'd do every 3rd or 2nd cycle up to 2-3 rep weights.

If you perform the moves like depicted in the book, it should teach your body enough (neuro-muscular and so on systems). First is technique, big weights second. A heavy 5 is heavy. Peaking is peaking, strength gains is a two year cycle.

I probably understand this wrong: "aim for my 5RM+5 pounds each cycle". You can go on until you don't get 5 reps, whatever the weight.

If a max5 is around 140kg, I'd start at 110kg. 2,5kg is too small increment for this weight.

I experimented with this. I had my own system where I did squat, bench and dl two times a week while training only four times a week. Squat and bench are a bit weaker for me so the 2,5kg increment worked pretty good, but in deadlift didn't work well. I started too high because I was on a target, and used 2,5kg increment.
 
@Tanner01,
Since @Bauer quoted and tagged me, I'll give my input, based on my experience.

I basically followed PTTP up to a 425lb DL and 465lb trap bar DL at 180-185lbs BW. However, I did not just progress linearly to that point.

I remember that my first cycle ended with a shaky 235lb single. For a while I progressed using linear cycles and hitting new PRs every cycle, but then hit a point (IIRC, around 315lb+) where I switched over to wave cycles, did more frequent back cycling, stayed with light-moderate to comfortably heavy weights for longer stretches before pushing ahead, and didn't try to push my limits as often. Looking back, I would have been even more patient, stayed within the "comfortably heavy" range even more, and tested close to my maxes even less often.

I became a big fan of the 4 steps forward/3 steps back wave cycle, usually with bigger jumps between sessions and smaller jumps between the beginning of each wave because it creates a nice rhythm of easier, medium, and more challenging sessions throughout the cycle. There aren't a bunch of easy sessions at the beginning or a death march of tough sessions at the end

PTTP is a high frequency program at 4-5 sessions per week. You can't have high frequency, high volume, AND high intensity. PTTP limits the volume, but with such a high frequency, you do have to be judicious with the intensity as the weights get heavier. Since you are lifting every other day, you can push the intensity a little more, but I'd still stay conservative.

Even though PTTP can be considered a bus bench* program since it follows planned cycles, I think it works best with a park bench** mentality. Keep the weights where you can just punch the clock, do your work for the day, and come back and hit it again tomorrow. As Dan John says, "Train today as if you are planning to go for a PR tomorrow. Then train the same way tomorrow."

*Bus bench = a more structured progression where you are expecting something specific to happen at a certain time, such as hitting a certain weight in a certain session (like sitting on a bench at a bus stop waiting for a bus).

**Park bench = a more unstructured progression where you are just focusing on the process and letting the results happen as they happen (like sitting on a park bench just taking in the scenery).

So, to get down to specifics, as a beginner I think you can get a lot out of linear cycles.

As @Bauer pointed out, linear cycles are really just more drawn out waves anyway. However, I wouldn't worry about tapering the reps or peaking to a PR single. Maybe at the end of a cycle, slap on an extra 5 or 10lbs and do a session of triples. Near limit DL attempts take a lot out of you and I think it's just better for long-term progress to be a little patient and mostly stick to 5s. Just start around 70% of your 5RM, add 5lbs a session until the 5th rep feels really tough, and reassess.

Is that 5RM at the end of a cycle a new PR? Great -- reset to 70% of your new 5RM and do it again. If not, try repeating the cycle and see where it gets you.

Keep in mind that progress is not just due to putting in reps. It's also refining your skill in generating tension. So make your reps mindful and focus on applying all the high tension techniques in the book and getting better at doing so. The 90% back off sets are great for focusing on specific technique points and finding and fixing tension leakages. For the top set, your focus is often just on completing the reps. For the back off sets you can afford to be use some of your focus for self-observation.

Once you get into the 315-345lb range, then I think the 4/3 wave cycle becomes more applicable.
 
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@Tanner01 Are you working out every other day because of time constraints or scheduling issues? If so, it may be better for you to do a program that fits your schedule. The PTTP is designed to be high frequency, and the success of the program depends on following it as it is designed, which is working out five consecutive days a week and then taking two days off. (Or if you must, at least 4 consecutive days and 3 days off).

Based on my reading of the book, my own experience so far, and discussion with my friend who has more knowledge and experience than I do, you should start with a conservatively low weight , do five reps of the work set, and 5 reps of backofd set (90%of workset), add 5 pounds daily. Your cycle should be between 8 to 15 workouts long. Usually, a 10 day cycle, 5 workouts a week over 2 weeks, is a good start for a beginner.

If say on your 8th or 9 workout you are unable to hit all 5 reps, you should reset, and start a new cycle. I was a bit stubborn when that happened to me on day 9 of my first cycle and decided to just repeat the same weight on the 10th day. After that I reset my cycle 5lbs heavier rather than 10lbs.

In short, if you can't hit all 5 reps, then you reset and start a new cycle. If this happens early in the cycle it is likely because you started with too heavy a weight, or you are not working out frequently enough as prescribed. If it happens later in the cycle and you don't want to reset yet and stretch it out a little bit, you can repeat the weight for the next few workouts and then try and add 5lbs, or you can go back a few workouts and carry on from there (mini cycling).

Once you finish a cycle you reset 10lbs higher than the start of the first cycle and start again.

The structured wave progression which is 4 steps forward, 3 steps back is essentially mini-cycles within a cycle. And your actual (macro) cycles regardless of what type of progession you are using within a cycle (linear, step, wave) are essentially a continuous structured wave progression.

To answer your question: the end of the cycle should be difficult, but not necessarily so difficult that you are consistently unable to hit the final workouts successfully.

If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend you read it... give it a quick peruse at least. I found it very helpful.
 
I have recently started my first linear cycle of PTTP (I am a beginner). I have started at a low weight and am working my way up to a new 5RM. I planned on continuing the cycle until I could only get 2-3 reps and then deloading. I am peaking until I hit 2-3 reps because I think I can get the most strength this way which shouldn't be too difficult or taxing since I am a beginner.

My question is about running a linear cycle with peaking. As I understand it, PTTP is about very frequent, moderate intensity workouts where you lift increasingly heavier weights for 5 reps even though you could get 2+ reps more than 5 reps. So does that mean that I should still stop 2-3 reps under what I am capable of when I get to the end of the cycle and peak, meaning that I should only do 2-3 reps when I am lifting a weight I could do for 5 reps as my final workout before deloading or should I push it closer to failure since I will be deloading for a new cycle? I know that in the book it also says that I should take a few days off before starting a new cycle which would allow me to recover from lifting closer to failure in my final workout.

P 57 of PTTP suggests staying at the same step for several workouts if needed. Jumping to a step where one can barely do 2-3 reps before failure is, I think, too aggressive for daily "practices." This can be made even worse if the next cycle is incremented nonetheless.
 
Thank you everyone.

Here is what I will implement based on the advice given:
- I won't taper the reps at the end of the cycle and will be more conservative in progress
- I will end cycles when I can no longer feel like I can get 5 reps without my form breaking down
- I will keep in mind that while I am lifting 5 reps it shouldn't be to failure (hence the above point of stopping cycles before form breaks down)
- Start new cycles at 70% of new 5RM if achieved otherwise redo cycle
- Stick with linear waves until my strength is much higher (not even close to 315 pounds yet) or I feel it is needed
- Go back to 5 days per week (Mon-Fri). I initially did this for 1.5 weeks but ended up stopping due to feeling worn out and having a sore knee from deadlifting. Looking back on this I definitely started way too high (I was doing 4/3 wave but had started the cycle with a weight that after one 4/3 wave I had reached my 5RM... Oops! Too greedy for some strength.). From what everyone is saying, it should have taken at least twice as long to get to that point.
- Have a park bench mentality for bench progression. Sounds like it is just an unstructured step loading progression (please correct me if I am wrong)
 
@Tanner01,
Since @Bauer
I became a big fan of the 4 steps forward/3 steps back wave cycle, usually with bigger jumps between sessions and smaller jumps between the beginning of each wave because it creates a nice rhythm of easier, medium, and more challenging sessions throughout the cycle. There aren't a bunch of easy sessions at the beginning or a death march of tough sessions at the end

PTTP is a high frequency program at 4-5 sessions per week. You can't have high frequency, high volume, AND high intensity. PTTP limits the volume, but with such a high frequency, you do have to be judicious with the intensity as the weights get heavier. Since you are lifting every other day, you can push the intensity a little more, but I'd still stay conservative.

How much would you typically add for each step forward?
 
How much would you typically add for each step forward?
I would use around 2% of 1RM. With linear cycle a bit less, but for most people finding plates that are small enough can be demanding. Thus the wave cycle is better I think, to keep the average increment in the right scale. For the smallest weights the step cycle is used, that's in the book.

FOR ME 5RM is roughly 85% of 1RM. I remembered that 80% of 5RM would be good starting point, many here say 70%. Those would be 68% and 60% of 1RM. Usually optimal strength training zone is 70-80% or 75-85% of 1RM depending on what you're reading.

Remember, 8-16 workouts. If you go 5 times a week it's three weeks and 15. I'm so number oriented. If your cycle lasts 3-4 weeks it's about time to "deload". For me that's 1-3 workouts on <70% range if I would train this way. It depends on the increment and type of cycle used.

A real deload is needed only after a meet / peaking / overtraining.

From the book's flexible wave, I expect that in there current 5RM is 225, so starting at 75% of 1RM. After 6 workouts continuously >83% it's time to call it quits and change the system. Or now it's time to take a proper 1-2 week deload and then start again from the <70% range. It's been dragged to 19 workouts (at >75%), so a bigger "break" seems wise.

If you keep starting at <70% range I believe that you can up the weight or at least improve with every cycle for quite some time. If you get greedy you will stall/overtrain, like the flexible wave example.

You have to be patient, which sadly, I'm not.
 
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How much would you typically add for each step forward?
If you are ending cycles (5RM) <315lbs, then 5lbs works well. Once you get much above that, linear cycles with 5lb jumps start to get a little too drawn out, and there are a few directions you could go in.

One is just doing linear cycles with 10lb jumps.

Another approach is more waviness -- bigger jumps between sessions and going to a 4/3 structured wave. I really like this approach, jumping 10-15lbs between sessions, but only 5-10lbs between the start of each wave (higher max = bigger jumps/lower max = smaller jumps -- measured in lbs, not percentage). This way you get a nice rhythm of easy, medium and challenging sessions, rather than a lot of easy sessions at the beginning or a death march of hard sessions at the end -- it's...wavy. With this approach, you can start a little lighter, say 65% 5RM, because each wave ramps up more quickly.

A third approach is more of an "Even Easier Strength" step cycle approach. Cruise along with a constant top set weight at an easyish moderate weight, go a little heavier when you feel strong to gauge where you're at, and then reset your cruising weight accordingly. Dan John talks about nudging up your 80% 1RM over time (not necessarily lifting in that range all the time, but using that as your benchmark instead of a true 1RM -- just focus on slowly improving the level that is "comfortably heavy" without necessarily ever maxing). I do think think it's worthwhile to periodically challenge yourself with weights that are a little more than comfortably heavy, but not necessarily real maxes, what Dan John calls a "PR without maxing." There's a skill to heavy attempts that it's hard to develop if you challenge yourself TOO little.

But the most important advice, I'd give to any beginner is to focus on technique -- applying the tension techniques from the book to generate tension and keep the tension turned on throughout the lift. THAT'S what you are really practicing.
 
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