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Barbell Pttp vs starting strength for beginner

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
I am a beginner but I've taken a few cycles of barbell.

Welcome to the forum.

Do you have more specific questions about cycling ?
 

Adachi

Level 6 Valued Member
Something like this for pttp
I suppose this is something that you might work out for yourself within the context of your goals, and revise and update as your experience, going forward, continue to inform your training.

there seems to be a slight philosophical mismatch between the intentions of Pavel and Mark R.

Mr. Rippetoe seems to harp on the idea of driving progress. he means to ride the top line of the error bars on your progression. it is arguably more aggressive than the approach which Pavel took to PTTP. at least in the way that the loading is presented.

in PTTP, it is shown that - how hard your drive this training - is up to you.
you design your cycle.
you set your goals.
you decide, when to back off and when to push.
just understand that you must find a time to back off after you push for a while.

so, under Rippetoe's paradigm.
load the barbell with these weights.
increase as prescribed.
start with 3 movements, and end up with 5 or 6 movements.
This is THE standard-issue novice program

under Pavel's Presentation.
load it heavier in the future than you are now.
here are some pointers and red flags to watch out for.
These 2 movements will tend to provide you with the most bang for the buck.
This is a minimalist approach that may be expanded and explored if you like. but only if you want to.

you stand to acquire a tremendous amount of strength in either program.

to me, as a novice, there are ways that they're very similar (you will get gains).
but to my eyes, at first, are very different (they have their own internal logic).
 
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Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
3x5 and pttp. Witch is better for gain strenght faster
+1 to @Adachi's summary.

I'll add a couple of things which may make your choice obvious, depending on your preferences and constraints:
-- SS is 3 days per week with the barbell. PTTP is 5 days per week.
-- SS is squat-intensive. This is the main driver of progress. It tends to make you put on weight, and if you're willing to put on weight (caloric surplus), you will get stronger faster. It's more of a "get big and strong" program. Just don't overdo it; i.e. overeat and put on too much excess weight. PTTP doesn't include a squat and uses the deadlift as the main driver of strength progression. It's more of a "strength is a skill" program. It will make you look stronger, but probably not bigger.
-- IMO, SS requires more attention on recovery. Off days are OFF days. PTTP leave room in your life for other activities.
-- Both are great programs and will help you get stronger and learn a lot about how to do the lifts as well as how your body responds to lifting.
 

james_1127

Level 5 Valued Member
Having got my start in SS and actually starting my training at WFAC when I was 13y/o... pttp is a lot more user friendly, and doesn't require near as much recovery as SS... at some point SS becomes extremely challenging, so imo I would base the two off of how much time do you have to train, and how well your recovery is... once the load gets heavy enough in SS you're easily resting 5+ min in between sets... that being said both are great, as is 5/3/1
 

watchnerd

Level 7 Valued Member
-- SS is squat-intensive. This is the main driver of progress. It tends to make you put on weight, and if you're willing to put on weight (caloric surplus), you will get stronger faster. It's more of a "get big and strong" program. Just don't overdo it; i.e. overeat and put on too much excess weight.

So much so that last time I did it (years and years ago) with adequate caloric surplus, I became like T-rex.

Giant legs & butt compared to arms.
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
Both will lead to big strength gains. Starting Strength is a very aggressive short term approach. PTTP less aggressive, longer term.
 

Ap0c

Level 3 Valued Member
Starting strength is lower complexity and I think more suitable to most beginner for that reason. If you run it for 12 weeks and are even mildly ambitious with your rate of progression, I suspect you will learn what it's like to grind out some heavy fives. Echoing what others have said, I wager that SS practically demands a hypercaloric diet. Those squats take it out of you.

One final remark is that if I could go back in time when I ran Stronglifts 5x5 a few years ago (very similar to starting strength), I probably would have stopped the linear progression at the 12 week mark, instead of trying to go 20+ weeks with it and getting lots of chronic hip crap from it. Basically it's very easy to "boil the frog" on a linear progression program.

Anyway, I've caught myself rambling again...
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
Starting strength is lower complexity and I think more suitable to most beginner for that reason. If you run it for 12 weeks and are even mildly ambitious with your rate of progression, I suspect you will learn what it's like to grind out some heavy fives. Echoing what others have said, I wager that SS practically demands a hypercaloric diet. Those squats take it out of you.

One final remark is that if I could go back in time when I ran Stronglifts 5x5 a few years ago (very similar to starting strength), I probably would have stopped the linear progression at the 12 week mark, instead of trying to go 20+ weeks with it and getting lots of chronic hip crap from it. Basically it's very easy to "boil the frog" on a linear progression program.

Anyway, I've caught myself rambling again...
Reload is a much more palatable 8 week progression.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Basically it's very easy to "boil the frog" on a linear progression program.
Lol... well said, and true. A coach who is familiar with the program and has a broad experience in strength training can definitely help navigate this difficult terrain. In this case they'll probably change it up before it gets too grindy.
 

flightposite

Level 5 Valued Member
I may offer a slightly dissenting opinion.
But I preferred PTTP. Also pttp can be run with squats or any other lift for that matter. It’s a system of progression more so than a set in stone exercises selection.
I would also add that I don’t necessarily think that it has to be pigeonholed into a beginner only type of program. It is something that I will periodically run even to this day. I am not claiming that I am advanced in anyway. But I would also not consider myself a beginner either. I have used it in the past when my squat was in the low three hundreds and I have used it in more recent times when my squat was in the low four hundreds.
All with much success.
 

flightposite

Level 5 Valued Member
I will agree that pttp is not geared towards mass gains. But provided you keep your calories high 50 plus reps of squats and presses a week will see some growth.
Plus there is always the Bear version.
 

BJJ Shawn

Level 6 Valued Member
I may offer a slightly dissenting opinion.
But I preferred PTTP. Also pttp can be run with squats or any other lift for that matter. It’s a system of progression more so than a set in stone exercises selection.
I would also add that I don’t necessarily think that it has to be pigeonholed into a beginner only type of program. It is something that I will periodically run even to this day. I am not claiming that I am advanced in anyway. But I would also not consider myself a beginner either. I have used it in the past when my squat was in the low three hundreds and I have used it in more recent times when my squat was in the low four hundreds.
All with much success.
Ha, that's the exact opposite of my impression of the book. I felt Pavel was pretty strict about the fact it has to be a deadlift, and that the progressions were the thing that is more of loose guides to assist as he gives multiple different progressions and even mentions you can combine them in different ways. Funny how we can read the same thing and see it completely differently.
 

flightposite

Level 5 Valued Member
Ha, that's the exact opposite of my impression of the book. I felt Pavel was pretty strict about the fact it has to be a deadlift, and that the progressions were the thing that is more of loose guides to assist as he gives multiple different progressions and even mentions you can combine them in different ways. Funny how we can read the same thing and see it completely differently.
Yes I can see how that can be extrapolated.
The deadlift has a much shorter learning curve and is a perfect exercise for someone short on time and low on technical skill.
Basically it lends itself well to a minimalist approach.
However the principals work with any lift.
As I can attest to.

I don’t want to speak for the author Pavel in this case.
But the book seems to be heavily slanted towards individuals that need or desire a minimalist approach.
•minimal time
•minimal equipment
•minimal recovery capacity
•minimal skill acquisition
etc.

So the deadlift and floor press seem like logical recommendations for the purpose of the book. But by no means represents the limits to the successful application of the approach laid out.
 
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