Bodyweight Pull Up / Press Up Increases

[Toby Cripps]

Yes so I hear.
I happen to live in Arizona where we have some pretty decent running as well...

From a very quick google search I think you might have me beat on both the scenery front and the likelihood of getting a tan. I did a bit of white water kayaking in Idaho on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River a while back but sadly that's the only l exposure I've really had to the states so far. Definitely planning to change that if I ever get the opportunity, and some of the longer trail running events you guys have out there are definitively on the bucket list.

 

[Toby Cripps]

Hello,

@Toby Cripps
You are welcome.

17 week could be long enough if you start soon.

As a disclaimer, FPP is a demanding programme. As soon as you experience a plateau, feel free to do it on alternate days. A lot of people report good results doing so.

To answer your question, the push portion of my routine is as follows:
Daily: 2 x 5r of HSPU
Daily: 2 x 5r of OAP
Daily: 1 set of 70-80

Kind regards,

Pet'

Hi Pet'

Thanks again for the info. Do you (and everyone else) think a decent start point would be to follow the Fighter Pull Up programme for both pull ups and press ups on the daily progression recommended (dropping to every other day depending on recovery), and then maybe 2 days per week work on more complex movements (e.g start working some one arm press up regressions and handstand press up regressions) until I'm competent enough to be able to do these daily and with good enough form to reap then full benefits of the movement. At which point I'll follow a structure similar to the one you've mentioned above?

 

[pet']

Hello @Toby Cripps

Do you (and everyone else) think a decent start point would be to follow the Fighter Pull Up programme for both pull ups and press ups on the daily progression recommended (dropping to every other day depending on recovery)

Yes I would start FPP as stated in article, on a daily basis.

As far as push ups, you can perform them daily as well. I guess you plan to tackle the 25RM then ?

The Fighter Pullup Program Revisited | StrongFirst

Here is a powerful Russian pullup program adaptable to any level of ability. The fighter pullup program can double or triple your pullups in one month.

www.strongfirst.com

In both cases, dropping to every other day as soon as you feel fatigue, is a good strategy. Dropping to the every other day strategy obeys by "simple rules":
- failure to perform a set
- pain of some sort
- permanent state of fatigue
- decrease in performance in other fields

then maybe 2 days per week work on more complex movements (e.g start working some one arm press up regressions and handstand press up regressions) until I'm competent enough to be able to do these daily and with good enough form to reap then full benefits of the movement.

Complex moves such as OAP usually work extremely well using GTG because it requires a lot of practice to refine the skill. Strength comes naturally as the skill increases. In general, learning a new skill require practice, while being fresh. This is why GTG works so well. You have ample rest between each repetition or set.

This is the strategy I used with almost all of the bodyweight moves (HSPU, OAP, OAOL, Front lever).

Otherwise, I think 3x a week is spot on.

You can perform FPP with push ups in the low rep range (5RM, 3RM). In this case, you "just" have to find the right push up varation (pike push up, pseudo planche, assisted one arm, etc...).

At which point I'll follow a structure similar to the one you've mentioned above?

I would tackle this as a process that I would not rush. Indeed, there is no need to get fatigued or injured. Therefore, I would do something as follows:
1. Starting as per the article (daily)
2. If needed, scaling back to every other day until completion. In this case, it will be possible to do something like: Day A: pull up, Day B: push up.
3. Assess the max at the end of the programme.

So to answer your question, I would:
1. Finish the programme
2. Practice daily using GTG (including to learn the OAP skill)*
3. Do 2-3 sets of 2-5 reps daily (so I would not use GTG anymore on these moves). In this case, this is a pure maintenance routine (not a progression routine).

*Once a week and a half, I would test my max or test if I am able to do 1 rep of the next progression. Then I would work my way up until I am able to do 10-15 reps using GTG (day in day out) of the new version.

I hope that helps you. Feel free to ask anything you want if I was not clear !

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Toby Cripps]

Hello @Toby Cripps


Yes I would start FPP as stated in article, on a daily basis.

As far as push ups, you can perform them daily as well. I guess you plan to tackle the 25RM then ?

The Fighter Pullup Program Revisited | StrongFirst

Here is a powerful Russian pullup program adaptable to any level of ability. The fighter pullup program can double or triple your pullups in one month.

www.strongfirst.com

In both cases, dropping to every other day as soon as you feel fatigue, is a good strategy. Dropping to the every other day strategy obeys by "simple rules":
- failure to perform a set
- pain of some sort
- permanent state of fatigue
- decrease in performance in other fields


Complex moves such as OAP usually work extremely well using GTG because it requires a lot of practice to refine the skill. Strength comes naturally as the skill increases. In general, learning a new skill require practice, while being fresh. This is why GTG works so well. You have ample rest between each repetition or set.

This is the strategy I used with almost all of the bodyweight moves (HSPU, OAP, OAOL, Front lever).

Otherwise, I think 3x a week is spot on.

You can perform FPP with push ups in the low rep range (5RM, 3RM). In this case, you "just" have to find the right push up varation (pike push up, pseudo planche, assisted one arm, etc...).


I would tackle this as a process that I would not rush. Indeed, there is no need to get fatigued or injured. Therefore, I would do something as follows:
1. Starting as per the article (daily)
2. If needed, scaling back to every other day until completion. In this case, it will be possible to do something like: Day A: pull up, Day B: push up.
3. Assess the max at the end of the programme.

So to answer your question, I would:
1. Finish the programme
2. Practice daily using GTG (including to learn the OAP skill)*
3. Do 2-3 sets of 2-5 reps daily (so I would not use GTG anymore on these moves). In this case, this is a pure maintenance routine (not a progression routine).

*Once a week and a half, I would test my max or test if I am able to do 1 rep of the next progression. Then I would work my way up until I am able to do 10-15 reps using GTG (day in day out) of the new version.

I hope that helps you. Feel free to ask anything you want if I was not clear !

Kind regards,

Pet'

Once again that was a mega comprehensive reply so I really appreciate you taking the time.

I'll crack on with FPP for both press ups and pull ups on a daily basis then. Current plan is to use a weighted vest (10kg) for the press ups and work to the 25RM plan yeah. This is based of my thought process that press ups are often done under fatigue to it makes sense to practice that movement pattern with added resistance, and also hope that this in tern has carryover to higher reps. However if anyone's opinion is I'd be better off ditching the vest and working much higher reps with an increased rate of drop off between sets (e.g. Day 1 - 52, 42, 32, 22, 17 etc) then that would be really useful to know. Similarly my intention is just to complete the 12RM programme for pull ups but if anyone feels I'd be better hanging 10kg of my waist and hitting the 5RM programme any info in that area would be mega too.

Just for final clarification (as I've seen either method argued) but for FPP are people doing all the sets for the day in one session with 4 - 10 min breaks, or are you doing them spaced out throughout the day (e.g 2 hours between sets). Or is this purely down to how you're recovering and fatigue management.

I'd never come across those simple rules but that's really useful thank you, I'll be sure to drop to alternating days (Day A - Press Ups, Day B - Pull Ups) if I get any of those issues.

Thank you also for your advice on using Grease the Groove to progress to the more complex movements and how to programme them. I'll be sure to take that on board and try and crack on with getting those movements sorted.

And again, thank you to everyone who has helped and contributed, you've really cleared a lot up for me.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Toby Cripps
I am glad you find useful content then !

Usually, FPP is a stand alone session. However, if you need 5 minutes rest, then go for it.

Weighted push ups can be a good idea. However, I would first assess my max with this load to be sure to do the right version of the routine. Be cautious on technique as well (no arching).

Be careful on your joints with both moves

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Toby Cripps]

Hello,

@Toby Cripps
I am glad you find useful content then !

Usually, FPP is a stand alone session. However, if you need 5 minutes rest, then go for it.

Weighted push ups can be a good idea. However, I would first assess my max with this load to be sure to do the right version of the routine. Be cautious on technique as well (no arching).

Be careful on your joints with both moves

Kind regards,

Pet'

Okay perfect, that's completely cleared it up. I definitely see what you mean regarding the weighted press ups, I struggle to get my scaps set properly in a vest and have to concentrate way way harder on avoid any sort of internal rotation. Are any accessory movements run in parallel with FPP to avoid any sort of side to side imbalances?

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Toby Cripps
Not really as you perform a push and a pull. Ideally, it would be a vertical push (overhead press of some sort) but as long as you run the press up routine, that's right.

You can do 'skin the cat' to secure both stretch and mobility. Some crawling and arm bar / windmill if you have access to some weight as well if you can (but again, more as mobility / warm up than anything else).

Mace training is also very good for shoulder mobility

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Thule]

Hi Toby,
Just a reflection, if I would prepare for a test like that I would try get some coaching in person. Especially if it is not a pass/fail kind of test. I hope I dont sound criticising to anyone! Its just not that easy to asess how much one's body can handle and it can feel good to know you have someone checking different aspects of your physique. I think you are not in a team in some sport?

 

[MikeL]

Toby. Il not kick the arse out of replying, you have lots of good info here.
ensure your form is good. You’re hitting the numbers for what I think you’re training for, as long as you’re honest with yourself on the form you’re good.
So focus on getting strong, surpassing a little further. I’d consider 4 week micro cycles of strength vs endurance to get you to the goal, hitting your weighted vs unweighted goals. Don’t neglect running speed work. You might not test with sprints but you’ll damn we’ll be observed moving from A to B fast. Better to be at the front.

 

[pet']

Hello,

+1 @MikeL on form.

Some units require specific pull ups (hands at least shoulder width, thumbs over / under the bar, etc...)

Same goes for push ups. Some units put 2 little plates under the chest to hear the sound it makes to be sure we are low enough. Some other require the hand release version which is clearly another animal.

Kind regards,

Pet'