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Bodyweight Pull ups and chest training

I'm not saying anything except that I notice my pecs contracting when I pull down. They may not be primary movers but it seems like they play a role in the movement. The only way I can keep the pecs relaxed is if it's more of a horizontal pulling motion.
 
They may not be primary movers but it seems like they play a role in the movement.

Muscles work in agonist / antagonist pairs.

The antagonist often plays a joint stabilizing role.

This helps prevent joint in jury.

The shoulder girdle is really complex, so I'll use the triceps / biceps example earlier as its simpler.

Overly strong triceps extension (relative to biceps and tendon) can lead to elbow dislocation. The job of the biceps is to help prevent that. They're active during triceps extension and if not strong enough, bad stuff can happen.

It's one of the more horrifying injuries that can happen in Olympic weightlifting:





Which is why, counterintuitively, biceps curls are sometimes practiced by weightlifters as a pre-hab.

If the antagonists on the front of your body to your pulling muscles weren't at least somewhat active, your back muscles would pull your shoulders out of their sockets and dislocate them.
 
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Is this compared to maximum voluntary contraction?

The obvious point no one has addressed here is that it will depend entirely on HOW you pull. If you lean back and stick out your chest I can see there being very limited chest involvement. But stay more upright with a close grip and I definitely feel my chest working after some heavy sets.

Definitely not as effective as something like dips but I would definitely say it gets some attention. 57% is more than I would have guessed though
 
Is this compared to maximum voluntary contraction?

The obvious point no one has addressed here is that it will depend entirely on HOW you pull. If you lean back and stick out your chest I can see there being very limited chest involvement. But stay more upright with a close grip and I definitely feel my chest working after some heavy sets.

Definitely not as effective as something like dips but I would definitely say it gets some attention. 57% is more than I would have guessed though

Is your question:

"do pull ups do anything for the chest"

or

"are pull ups a very effective chest exercise vs the alternatives"

I thought it was the latter.
 
Excuse the bodybuilding example here, but this thread heads in that direction.
But if you do a late flare, you will notice your pecs are tensed somewhat, I think. Maybe stretched, or both at the same time.

I'm not sure of the research location, maybe @Kenny Croxdale can chime in.

But I remember reading somewhere that stretched under load can cause the muscle to grow.

Probably not as much as exercises targeting the chest directly, but a program like ROP has definitely firmed up my chest considerably, and I'm not even doing pullups, just hangs.

For example, consider the dumbell pull over. Is a snatch and a pullup not basically the same movement?

Catching the clean forces you to naturally tense your chest, and support required, the "shelf" is not only the lats but also the chest.

Just my thoughts.
I don't see it at all. If you have full body tension during pushups, the calves must therefore be doing something to stabilise you.

So... do pushups train calves?
 
For me the original post was fully answered at post 5. However legend has it that Milo of croton had big pec’s.

Wikipedia
  • He would train in the off years by carrying a newborn calf on his back every day until the Olympics took place. By the time the events were to take place, he was carrying a four-year-old cow on his back. He carried the full-grown cow the length of the stadium, then proceeded to kill, roast, and eat it.
 
I love these long discussions, some are fun to me and some are educational.

It is great to be in a community that can passionately discuss this topic.

There is a famous, at least for me a nerd, video from legendary physicist Feynman. He explains how hard to answer a simple “why?” Question.

I think any question can be answered as a no or a yes depending on the level of experience and the objective of the person who is asking the question.

But then we will end up saying yes and no to every question. It is a dilemma.

We can even answer the question “is pull up a good exercise for your back muscles?” as a no, depending on the situation and objective of the person who is asking the question. Yes, someone can easily create many scenarios in which not doing pull ups but sth else is good for that person’s back muscles. Does it mean pull ups are bad for your back muscles? Well it depends…

Do only pull ups if you want to, your entire body will work in a SF style strict pull up including your legs, but don’t expect a big chest or a one arm push up strength or huge quads or a single leg pistol strength out of a pull up. And I am not trying to ridicule anyone or trying to be sarcastic. That is only what I think in my humble in experienced opinion.

Without a program that is tuned towards your goals you will not even get what you want for your back muscles with a pull up exercise. Do you want size? Strength? Even a pull up program will change according to your objective for your upper back.

You can be on a “bad” pull up program based on your needs and pull ups will not deliver what they would otherwise, for your back muscles leave a side their ability to deliver your objectives about pecs…
 
I don't see it at all. If you have full body tension during pushups, the calves must therefore be doing something to stabilise you.

So... do pushups train calves?
Pushups train calves more than incline flies.

Chin ups train chest more than lateral raises.

I thought this place was about movements?

Show me someone who has a bad chest that can do 1/2BW press and 20 pullups.

Go to the gym and see guys doing chest exercises 3 days a week and compare.

You can't, because thoracic extension and a strong back improves the chest too.
 
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Pushups train calves more than incline flies.

Chin ups train chest more than lateral raises.

I thought this place was about movements?

Show me someone who has a bad chest that can do 1/2BW press and 20 pullups.

Go to the gym and see guys doing chest exercises 3 days a week and compare.

You can't, because thoracic extension and a strong back improves the chest too.
Well can’t disagree with any of this post. If you do press, and pull ups, your side delts will develop as well. I did not see any one with a hole on the outside of their shoulder cause they skipped the delt raise.

Your answer is inline with SF philosophy but then we should not be focusing on which muscles are involved in which moves either … which indeed I don’t except this thread :)
 
Well can’t disagree with any of this post. If you do press, and pull ups, your side delts will develop as well. I did not see any one with a hole on the outside of their shoulder cause they skipped the delt raise.

Your answer is inline with SF philosophy but then we should not be focusing on which muscles are involved in which moves either … which indeed I don’t except this thread :)
I guess my point is (probably not my point), if you get strong and maintain a healthy bodyfat composition, your pecs will be fine, probably better than 99% of the population. If competing is your thing, then good luck on reaching Doriam Yates.... But no one commented about his pecs, it was his back that made him 7x champion.
So my point is, if you are worrying about your pecs, because you can see them in the mirror, you should be more worried about your thoracic extension (pullups, press)
 
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I guess my point is (probably not my point), if you get strong and maintain a healthy bodyfat composition, your pecs will be fine, probably better than 99% of the population. If competing is your thing, then good luck on reaching Doriam Yates.... But no one commented about his pecs, it was his back that made him 7x champion.
So my point is, if you are worrying about your pecs, because you can see them in the mirror, you should be more worried about your thoracic extension (pullups, press)
I agree. I think SF is the king of minimalist programs, although not limited to them, and that is one of the reasons that I love SF and keep on learning and developing my self.

I believe for minimalist strength programs Pavel’s exercise selections, and for minimalist hypertrophy programs some of the programs he has chosen in Beyond BB, and Fabio’s or Geoff’s exercise selections tells a lot as well IC from Brett Johns etc.

To your example, Dorian Yates used fewer exercises than many youtube so called fitness gurus programs.
I think majority of the population shines while focusing on fewer things as much fundemental as possible.

My comments on pec involvement in pull up, is not to disagree with general SF philosophy. It is only to create right expectations. Pick a few compound exercises, develop them and you are golden.

This is not to discredit people who needs to have more exercises due to their ambition to maximize certain outcomes or to undermine any human being need to “move” in order to be fit and healthy.

For my hypertrophy and strength and flexibility needs I develop most when I am focused. Which includes selection of exercises/programs. I have programs that I have purchased before I met SF, full of tons of exercises. Indeed those programs would also work, because almost anything works :) but while trying to maximize things you do, it is easy to not to maximize anything. With that, I rest my case in the favor of Pull Ups :)
 
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