Bodyweight Pull Ups & Strong Endurance

[Carl]

Hi all,

I wondered what the updated line of thinking is on Strong Endurance type training with pull ups. Specifically, what are some SF tested and approved applications/programmes?

Looking to run this as a standalone minimalist programme for a while and cover full body with limited moves.

I have a strong preference for calisthenic basics

I have all Pavel’s books (inc Q&D) but the pull up doesn’t get specific mention in recent writings.

Thanks for any related, real world feedback.

 

[Pete L]

Hi all,

I wondered what the updated line of thinking is on Strong Endurance type training with pull ups. Specifically, what are some SF tested and approved applications/programmes?

Looking to run this as a standalone minimalist programme for a while and cover full body with limited moves.

I have a strong preference for calisthenic basics

I have all Pavel’s books (inc Q&D) but the pull up doesn’t get specific mention in recent writings.

Thanks for any related, real world feedback.

I would have questioned whether the volume necessary could be handled by most people.
Perhaps you could mix a rep of pullups with some burpees as a set?

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[Xene]

Hi all,

I wondered what the updated line of thinking is on Strong Endurance type training with pull ups. Specifically, what are some SF tested and approved applications/programmes?

Looking to run this as a standalone minimalist programme for a while and cover full body with limited moves.

I have a strong preference for calisthenic basics

I have all Pavel’s books (inc Q&D) but the pull up doesn’t get specific mention in recent writings.

Thanks for any related, real world feedback.

During the Strong Endurance event last year they talked about the Red Army Pull Up Protocol. You can try this one.

Bodyweight - Red Army pullup protocol

Hello In „Strongfirst speaks „ 18.sep. There is a protocol from the soviet armed forces. What means the „RM“ in the table „servus“ from austria Gerhard

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[mikhael]

@Carl
What are your current numbers, I mean RM and 1RM. Also would be good to specify a goal considering Pull-ups. Do you have such?

Stay Strong. Stay Hard. Get After It.

 

[James Sullivan]

Hi all,

I wondered what the updated line of thinking is on Strong Endurance type training with pull ups. Specifically, what are some SF tested and approved applications/programmes?

Looking to run this as a standalone minimalist programme for a while and cover full body with limited moves.

I have a strong preference for calisthenic basics

I have all Pavel’s books (inc Q&D) but the pull up doesn’t get specific mention in recent writings.

Thanks for any related, real world feedback.

Hi Carl,

Pavel specifically discussed training pullups in several different contexts at the Denver Strong Endurance I attended in 2019.

I think your looking for SE Template #7 - Specifically mentions target as:

"Increasing the number of consecutive reps in strength endurance exercises (e.g. strict pullups)".

I can not post that template here. Send me an email or DM if you're interested.

 

[Steve Freides]

James, sharing parts of the manual is something we don't permit, and that's different than only not allowing it to be posted here. The material is protected by copyright and is given to attendees solely for their own personal use and in the development of programs for their students.

Normally I would just send you a PM, but since the forum's organization recently changed, I realize that where the lines are for some things isn't clear, so I thought it best for everyone to read this.

Thanks, everyone.

-S-

 

[Steve W.]

James, sharing parts of the manual is something we don't permit, and that's different than only not allowing it to be posted here. The material is protected by copyright and is given to attendees solely for their own personal use and in the development of programs for their students.

Normally I would just send you a PM, but since the forum's organization recently changed, I realize that where the lines are for some things isn't clear, so I thought it best for everyone to read this.

Thanks, everyone.

-S-

So if Carl were James's student, James would be allowed to have Carl do the program, which would necessitate sharing it with him?

 

[James Sullivan]

James, sharing parts of the manual is something we don't permit, and that's different than only not allowing it to be posted here. The material is protected by copyright and is given to attendees solely for their own personal use and in the development of programs for their students.

Normally I would just send you a PM, but since the forum's organization recently changed, I realize that where the lines are for some things isn't clear, so I thought it best for everyone to read this.

Thanks, everyone.

-S-

I was assuming this would be a student teacher arrangement and I don’t ever share templates I generate protocols.

 

[James Sullivan]

So if Carl were James's student, James would be allowed to have Carl do the program, which would necessitate sharing it with him?

@Steve W. The strong endurance manual contains templates and plans. The templates are not prescriptive in terms of exact exercises, number of reps, sets, intensity, work to rest ratios, etc. Each of the many included templates provides the information required to generate many, many unique protocols in order to achieve a given training objective. This is why they are so valuable in terms of intellectual property and why @Steve Freides is making sure they are not distributed.

 

[Steve W.]

@Steve W. The strong endurance manual contains templates and plans. The templates are not prescriptive in terms of exact exercises, number of reps, sets, intensity, work to rest ratios, etc. Each of the many included templates provides the information required to generate many, many unique protocols in order to achieve a given training objective. This is why they are so valuable in terms of intellectual property and why @Steve Freides is making sure they are not distributed.

Thanks for the clarification.

I was not assuming or insinuating that you would do, were doing, or were offering to do anything you weren't supposed to.

I was just assuming you were offering to help out a poster who asked a question.

 

[James Sullivan]

I was just assuming you were offering to help out a poster who asked a question.

Correct. I feel like Strong Endurance should get much more attention than I see it getting. If Q&D is a apple, than SE is an orchard.

 

[Steve Freides]

Correct. I feel like Strong Endurance should get much more attention than I see it getting. If Q&D is a apple, than SE is an orchard.

James, thank you very much for clarifying.

-S-

 

[ali]

I don't know SE but is it not in general tipped towards 'conditioning' rather than pure strength?
It's pretty easy to thrash yourself to bits with cardio output affecting form. And here, various SF under the umbrella of SE templates are appropriate. But pull ups? Gtg, 5x5, ladders, fighter would apply, no? Whatever is the best fit at a given time.
How would a SE template for pull ups differ?

 

[JamesPTA]

I don't know SE but is it not in general tipped towards 'conditioning' rather than pure strength?
It's pretty easy to thrash yourself to bits with cardio output affecting form. And here, various SF under the umbrella of SE templates are appropriate. But pull ups? Gtg, 5x5, ladders, fighter would apply, no? Whatever is the best fit at a given time.
How would a SE template for pull ups differ?

I think the OP was asking if there are templates similar to Q&D where you alternate swings and push ups in specific manner.

HectorG had a Bodyweight Intensive program for OAP as well as pull ups, and the finishers were snatches with single or double bells combined with power push ups performed in SE fashion.

 

[ali]

Ah, I see. You'd need to be proficient then doing explosive pull ups then, presumably.
Multiple times. Big ask for most I'd think.

 

[James Sullivan]

I don't know SE but is it not in general tipped towards 'conditioning' rather than pure strength?
It's pretty easy to thrash yourself to bits with cardio output affecting form. And here, various SF under the umbrella of SE templates are appropriate. But pull ups? Gtg, 5x5, ladders, fighter would apply, no? Whatever is the best fit at a given time.
How would a SE template for pull ups differ?

Pavel specifically designed templates to enhance strength endurance required to hit "high" pullup numbers. The thinking is that there is a limit to the number of reps you can hit training what you are referring to as "pure strength" >25 reps I believe is the rule of thumb. Beyond that you shift your adaptation targets (IIA and IIX MT respiration in strength exercises, myoglobin, strength endurance, synaptic facilitation, myelination, IIA hypertrophy).

The template I'm referring to (#7) is a series-based. The number of reps per set, sets within a series, and total number series are calculated from your RM. The template also prescribes rest between sets and rest between series along with; tempo, speed, intensity, metabolic intensity, the appropriate associated muscle fatigue, breathing rate and training frequency.

You'd need to be proficient then doing explosive pull ups then, presumably.
Multiple times. Big ask for most I'd think.

To answer the specific question regarding required speed of the movement; yes the pull-ups need to be executed in the "moderate to explosive" range. This is not a big ask for folks who are looking to use this plan i.e. >25 reps.

It's pretty easy to thrash yourself to bits with cardio output affecting form.

To address the concern about form breakdown; there are specific "stop signs" for strength endurance exercises' sets and series. If you meet any of the 5 conditions the set / series is terminated.

Hope this answers the questions. I'm more than happy to answer follow-ups or continue this conversation by PM or email exchange.

This is just a drop in the ocean of SE knowledge...

 

[ali]

@James Sullivan ....very helpful, thank you.

 

[James Sullivan]

@James Sullivan ....very helpful, thank you.

My pleasure.

 

[Carl]

Thanks all for commentary. Apologies @Steve Freides - more than happy to attend a Strong Endurance seminar/workshop as would love to hear Pavel talk live.