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Other/Mixed Pullovers - Yes or No?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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Swann 1

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I had a couple of questions about Pullovers.

Does anyone here do them regularly? If so, do you usually focus on volume (large reps) or on weight?

If you don't do them regularly, do you have a specific reason? Meaning do you have another movement that you prefer that seems to accomplish the same/more, or does this irritate injuries, or whatever...

Just curious. I've always liked the movement when I've done it, but have never seriously integrated it into a program. I'm thinking I might, so I'm just doing a little anecdotal/informal research for myself....

 
 
Hi!

My advise is to pick up a copy of Pavel's "Beyond Bodybuilding" if you fancy the Pullover - the book explains how to do them safely and also answers many of your questions.

Since I am a minimalist when it comes to training (i.e. sticking to just a few big movements focusing on function rather then muscles) I wouldn't do Pullovers at all, since it fits more into the bodybuilding category. But if you like the exercise and want to do it regularly, you will be able to build big triceps with it. I would guess that 6-8 reps/set is a good choice, but do them heavy. (I just assume you are aiming for big guns, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :) ).

However, if huge muscles aren't your main goal, try Get-ups, overhead presses and jerks to get strong triceps as a byproduct.

Have a nice day!

Best regards, Henke in Sweden
 
@Swann 1 , I just happened to Google pullovers for another thread, and this post came up. So, sorry for the delayed response. :)

I do pullovers and arm bars when warming up. Just a few reps with a weight that causes me to take notice but also isn't brutally heavy. Good lat stretch (pullovers), T-spine mobility (arm bars), and shoulder stability/mobility (arm bars).

IMO, they're great... But -- to steal a phrase from @Brett Jones -- they're a great spice, not a main course.
 
I do them as a deck squat almost every workout. I like to put them toward the end, they tie everything together as a nice finisher - abs, pecs, delts traps.

I agree, they aren't for a main course. I keep my elbows in close and arms bent to keep some space in the shoulder.
 
@North Coast Miller , I hadn't thought of doing them on the back end, rather than the front end, of a session, but I think you may be right. They really do seem like they would tie everything together nicely.
 
@Swann 1 Physiologically, pullovers and halos are great for getting the serratus anterior ("boxer's muscle") active. Developing the serratus compliments many kettlebell movements as one of it's main responsibilities is acting as the antagonist to the rhomboids in protracting the scapula, as well as assisting in it's upward rotation. This is long answer to why you feel these exercises help to tie everything together especially when lifting overhead.
 
KB pullovers are a good as part of an overhead warm up. I will super set them with banded straight arm Lat pull downs.

The KB pullover is a good test movement also. I lie flat on the floor, tense legs and glutes, keep low back in contact with the floor, hook thumbs in handle and let bell rest on forearms, keep arms straight, shoulders packed, triceps tense, and lower the bell back overhead as far as possible while maintaining that posture. Only go as far as you can with out cheating. Once can touch the floor I pause before pulling the bell back.

Try them over a perpendicular foam, or rumble roller to really open up the T Spine, and shoulders. Do a few reps on each segment of the T Spine.

I will also use a barbell with different grip types and widths on an overhead day with kneeling cable straight arm Lat pulldowns, which work well for deadlifts also.
 
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Developing the serratus compliments many kettlebell movements as one of it's main responsibilities is acting as the antagonist to the rhomboids in protracting the scapula, as well as assisting in it's upward rotation.

That's very interesting... I feel like these two muscles are always fighting with each other in my right shoulder. Serratus gets tight, rhomboid gets tired, everything gets tense. Not a major problem but a cycle I can never seem to quite break out of. The most likely root cause is that my right hand is on a mouse at the computer for too many hours a day.

I found a good video from Louka Kurcer on how to do KB pullovers as Geoff described above...

 
image.jpeg @Anna C I agree that your desk work may be contributing to the tightness. Do you ever use a lacrosse ball to trigger point your pecs and traps? Desk work typically affects those areas as well.

Great video, as a variation I perform my pullovers with bent elbows while holding a glute bridge on a bench. I like Halos while in the 1/2 kneeling position.

Back to that tightness, try this postural move throughout the day at work. Turns "on" all the right stuff and turns "off" the rest.

The Founder (Dr. Eric Goodman)


image.jpeg
 
@Anna C I forgot to mention, I like to add a minute or two of floor slides using the same posture while I am on the floor already.

I had never seen others do "my" version of the KB pullover. I know I am not the only one doing them that way, I just adapted them from the barbell version I had always done. I would do one set each of snatch grip, jerk grip, and military press grip.
 
@natewhite39, yes, I massage often with "Yoga Tune Up" massage therapy balls, massage stick, rumble roller. Pecs, traps, serretus, whole upper back. I go for a proper deep tissue massage about once a month. Thanks for these pictures -- I'm familiar with the Founder, will try doing that more often during the work day. A good reset for sure.

Interesting note on the pullover -- I tried some early this morning, soon after waking, and my shoulders (right one, particularly) really didn't like it. I did a few T-spine mobility drills I learned from Karen Smith (3 way; glide, open, and around the world) and found that with the glide, I was pretty restricted. Did some work with the rumble roller on my upper back and re-tried the glide -- MUCH better, Wow -- then tried the pullover again, and it was fine. Interesting!

I always liked the concept I learned from Karen Smith about using the 3-way as a "check-in" to see how mobile you are, and if you need additional mobility work that day before pressing or doing other overhead work. It really works.
 
Here's a chopped video of mine. Have found its better to use lower weight and more reps. I avoid overhead exercises where my hands are close together as it really stresses my shoulders. I avoid some of this by keeping the shoulder neutral or slightly rotated externally and keeping some bend in the elbows.

This is an exercise I never really enjoyed much back in my freeweight days doing them on a bench. Didn't feel like they were doing much.

These days I still don't "enjoy" them so much either, as they're always challenging, especially as a finisher. For an added challenge I do them with a B stance squat - have to really explode into it to get over the back leg.

 
@North Coast Miller- I will say your deck squats look impressive! I have done them unloaded and they really got the job done, combining them with pullovers looks nasty, in a good way.

They're another good example of how changing levels makes an exercise a real bear. Add to the list Burpees, TGU, squat snatch...

These are also very easy to change up - go into a pistol instead of a low squat, add a jump at the finish, really tough stuff. And because they work better with low weight they're great for a finisher.

In the video I'm only doing them with 40lbs. I can execute the movement with a 24 kg but once the reps drop below 8 it doesn't feel like I'm getting the same benefit at all.
 
@Anna C,
I had a problem with my left shoulder which kind of got "stack" on lost all external rotation at given point during flexion. I did a lot of mobility work, especially for the T-spine to clear it before presses and TGUs. It got better with time, but not by allot, and change wasn't consistent enough and not solidified.

3 weeks ago I started taking OS resets seriously and it pretty much cleared my shoulder and the change feels more stable than "classical" mobility work... this whole patterning things continue to work...

I now use OS reset on warmups and as suggested movement snacks during the day and use mobility work only as an first-aid tool (which was required only once to my left hamstring).

I was a 3R/2L on the FMS shoulder mobility (asymmetry - yellow light o_O), and I'm now 2R/2L (acceptable symmetry - green light :D). I looked Karen Smith's 3-way assessment, symmetrical there as well, will start using it...

So, my advice is take a week to play with some OS resets and see if and how it works for you...

The reason I use bent press in my program is a Tim Andersons's video describing the bent press as a loaded reset. I like how it feels and how I feel after doing it.

Sorry for the long of topic post...
 
Thanks @Shahaf Levin, I have practiced OS resets for 3 years now and I do find them helpful. I don't do as much crawling as I once did but you're right, it helps with the shoulder issues. Always a good thing to try to add back in for warm-ups, thanks for the reminder...
 
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