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Old Forum Push Presses

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Telegramsam

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Keen on playing around with these. I have seen the YouTube Mark Toomet video but I have a few Qs:

1. When does one start to move the arms overhead for the lockout? When you are, say, 2/3 of the way up from the dip?

2. Should one aim for as much of the momentum to move the KBs up, explosively, coming from the legs as possible? Or just as much as is necessary to to assist the lockout?

3. As for overall force does the lifter aim to lift the bells as quickly/explosively/with as much force as possible? Or just the minimum required to get the KB to lockout?

They are more technical than I imagined!
 
Read over Geoff Neuperts "Kettlebell Strong" He does a good job explaining it, saying something to the effect of "don't overthink them"
 
I've been doing a lot of these in my current go-round with Kettlebell Muscle.

As Dan John likes to say, "You can't think your way through a ballistic lift."

Keep it simple. Geoff Neupert's cue is "jump and punch."

As to your questions, here's my take:
1. Don't think about it. Use the leg drive to launch the bells out of the rack. Your arms shouldn't really leave your chest until your legs are just about locked out, otherwise you are just wasting leg drive. Inertia should keep the bells glued to your body during the drive--until it doesn't.

2. I think it depends on the weight of the KBs, the number of reps you plan to do, your purpose for doing the exercise, etc.

With lighter weights, you can balance the amount of leg drive and arm pressing to emphasize either. With heavy weight (or when your arms are fatigued), you may need every bit of leg drive you can generate just to get the weights to lockout.

Also, I don't think of the leg drive "assisting" the lockout. The leg drive gives you some momentum out of the rack, but the lockout is what your arms do. I guess this IS assistance, but I don't think of it that way; I think of the lockout as the "press" part of "push press."

3. Also depends on the factors mentioned in #2. With heavy weights and/or fatigue, you don't really have a choice.

A couple of other points I find helpful in my experience:
--The push press rack is different from the press rack. Keep the elbows glued to the body for the dip. Instead of thinking "spring loaded" as I do when cleaning into a press rack, I think "one piece," meaning the bells, my arms and torso are all one piece.

--Don't dip too deeply or too slowly. Keep it short and quick.

--Be very careful about dropping the bells back into the rack. It is very easy to jack up your shoulders if you just let the bells fall and don't absorb the impact correctly (ask me how I know). It hasn't happened to me, but I can also see it being hard on the back if your form isn't right.

Personally, I no longer even think of it as "dropping" the bells into the rack. I lower the bells with some resistance, just quicker and with less resistance than I would in a strict press, and use a knee dip to at the bottom. I also reset after every rep, not the "viking" style of immediately driving back up after catching the bells in the rack.

Hope this help.
 
1. As late as possible. If you start pressing halfway through the push, you'll loose momentum from the push.

2. Yes, and no. Yes for aiming for as much momentum from the push, but not to make the press as explosive as possible. Because:

3. If you do it explosively, then you're actually power jerking the bell. Like in having the bell in rack position and then immediately put it in lockout position overhead using the momentum from the legs, thats a power jerk. If you can do that, you can certainly push press a heavier bell :)
 
3. If you do it explosively, then you’re actually power jerking the bell. Like in having the bell in rack position and then immediately put it in lockout position overhead using the momentum from the legs, thats a power jerk. If you can do that, you can certainly push press a heavier bell :)
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My understanding is that a power jerk actually involves a repending of the knees to drop under the weight:

http://www.catalystathletics.com/exercise/72/Power-Jerk/

https://breakingmuscle.com/olympic-weightlifting/weightlifting-for-athletes-should-you-be-power-jerking
 
Guys INCREDIBLE advice, I am deeply indebted. Thanks to all.

One last one: I guess, for upper-body hypertrophy, they are more effective than C & Js?
 
For hypertrophy, I would think the answer is a no. In Return of The Kettlebell (my personal favorite program), Pavel uses the long cycle C&J as the main event during the "explosive block," with the push press employed only on the light day. He cites that the PP (specificially, the "Viking" push press) is great for the LC groove on your heavy and medium training days.

Since the stated goal of RotKB is size along with strength, there is probably a very good reason the Chief recommends the long cycle as the money maker with the PP in more of a support role.
 
Steve W.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But the way I see it, the question is not about rebending the knees or not. Because if the momentum comes from the legs, and not from the upper body, you're jerking the bell. That's for me the main difference between jerk and push press.
 
Steve W.

Correct me if I’m wrong. But the way I see it, the question is not about rebending the knees or not. Because if the momentum comes from the legs, and not from the upper body, you’re jerking the bell. That’s for me the main difference between jerk and push press.
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Well, you may have your own definition, but the rest of the weightlifting world uses dropping under the weight as the point of distinction, whether it be a shallow dip, a deeper squat or, most commonly in competition, a split.

Push press = dip and drive; jerk = dip, drive, and drop.
 
Muscle jerk?
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As an analog to the muscle snatch, that would make sense. But I'm not sure I've ever heard a separate term for a push press sans pressout/jerk sans dip.
 
BTW, while we are discussion nomenclature, "Inunnguaq" is brilliant as an internet username.
 
Thank you, thats my name btw.

Muscle jerk, when you jerk without rebending the knees. Does that make sense?
 
Thank you, thats my name btw.

Muscle jerk, when you jerk without rebending the knees. Does that make sense?
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Even cooler as a real name.

Muscle jerk makes sense, I just have not heard it used, or any other specific term to distinguish the amount of arm involvement in putting up a push press.

But it is a logically analogous term to muscle snatch so I wouldn't be surprised if people have used it that way.
 
Just FYI - there's a product called Dynami which Brett Jones and Gray Cook put together a while back. It's an excellent resource for working with the push press.
 
I second Dynami for someone who wishes to learn the pushpress.
It's a great product.
 
Excellent points - I have only recently bought and read ETK (as a resource, more than as a plan to follow) so don't know why I didn't twig that LCCJ are preferred for hypertrophy.

Found a program on here I think I will try: 100 double LCCJ, easy(ish) effort. When can do 100 in 15 minutes, go heavier. Simple & efficient for strength, power, conditioning, hypertrophy and melting lard (if diet is clean).
 
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