Other/Mixed Q and D results
- Thread starter s f
- Start date
Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
recently ran Q&D 044 for a 12-week training block.
ran 10x10 snatches after that for about 2 months.
currently running an A+A swing and pushup protocol now.
From cycle to cycle it has gotten harder. not easier.
It taxes me more during the set.
I recover faster between series.
my ability to tame the arc is tested.
Overspeed eccentrics get faster and closer to the edge of performance for my grip and biceps.
the Concentric portion most notably has begun challenging my biceps as I become more powerful out of the bottom.
I've been running this program from time to time over a couple of years or so, with the 24kg bell.
and, overall, it seems to grow with me so far.
ran 10x10 snatches after that for about 2 months.
currently running an A+A swing and pushup protocol now.
- saved me a lot of time. <1 hour per week
- there was a cardio / strength-endurance carry over which was most notable in the wake of 5 series days.
- 5x(5/4) is the worst for me. but, it added so perceptibly to my cardio capacity
- my favorite measurement is taking note of how easy it is to bound upstairs
- by comparison, my PttP style barbell cycles increased raw strength and hypertrophy, but I noticed being winded at the top of the stairs.
- Peak strength is yet to be tested, but my shoulders and thighs continued showing hypertrophy.
- I take this as a sign that the loading is still within the applicable range.
- The shape and size of shoulders, thighs, and traps increased slightly over time.
- swinging 32kg for 10 reps after this cycle is starting to feel light.
From cycle to cycle it has gotten harder. not easier.
It taxes me more during the set.
I recover faster between series.
my ability to tame the arc is tested.
Overspeed eccentrics get faster and closer to the edge of performance for my grip and biceps.
the Concentric portion most notably has begun challenging my biceps as I become more powerful out of the bottom.
I've been running this program from time to time over a couple of years or so, with the 24kg bell.
and, overall, it seems to grow with me so far.
rwleonard
Level 7 Valued Member
Yeah, 044 seems to be a protocol that really rewards getting better at "hard style."
s f
Level 6 Valued Member
thank you
Kayodoubleu
Level 2 Valued Member
I did it exactly one year ago for 10-12 weeks (can't remember exactly. Didn't started my trainings log back than). Did 20 and 24kg snatches. Dependent on what I rolled. For high Volumen in took the lighter one. I wasn't able to snatch a lot back than.
For the swing I took the 24kg and 32kg.
From Q&D itself I didn't gain much. I have only started to train again 6 month before that and only did S&S till I reached timles simple. Than I switched to Q&D.
I liked the short training sessions. I was still building a habit to train almost daily so the short trainings were great. But I didn't improved much from Q&D myself. After Q&D I trained similar but did only snatches A+A style. That I think helped me a lot better. I improved way more than from regular Q&D.
I could snatch the 24kg relatively easy (still can't finish snatch test yet. But I am close). I could finally jerk a 32kg. My condition get much better. My swings were good. I could finish S&S with time restriction (even though I didn't swing for 4 month). And without training the press I was able to clean and press a 24kg for 7 left and right. And I even improved my pullups by alot (7 pullups max) without training them regularly.
So I would say doing only the Snatch with Q&D and ignore the swings pushups.
For the swing I took the 24kg and 32kg.
From Q&D itself I didn't gain much. I have only started to train again 6 month before that and only did S&S till I reached timles simple. Than I switched to Q&D.
I liked the short training sessions. I was still building a habit to train almost daily so the short trainings were great. But I didn't improved much from Q&D myself. After Q&D I trained similar but did only snatches A+A style. That I think helped me a lot better. I improved way more than from regular Q&D.
I could snatch the 24kg relatively easy (still can't finish snatch test yet. But I am close). I could finally jerk a 32kg. My condition get much better. My swings were good. I could finish S&S with time restriction (even though I didn't swing for 4 month). And without training the press I was able to clean and press a 24kg for 7 left and right. And I even improved my pullups by alot (7 pullups max) without training them regularly.
So I would say doing only the Snatch with Q&D and ignore the swings pushups.
Ege
Level 6 Valued Member
What does 5x(5/4) mean? 5 days a week?
Kayodoubleu
Level 2 Valued Member
It seems that you, like myself, think that the Snatch I a much better exercise than the swing. So you would rather do a pure snatch program than a pure swing program.
I am often thinking about this. The KB swing is often called as the essential KB exercise. I am now KB training since 2013 on and off and never had the feeling that the swing give me any benefits.
I just finished the "KB Strong first" Swing and GetUp Programm two weeks ago. And of course I can see that my condition gets better I don't feel like I am benefiting anywhere else like I think I do from the Snatch. I am doing 40kg TH Swings and I think they are pretty crisp and solid. But 24kg snatches would give me more back i think. If I were able to do 32kg snatches that would be much more beneficial.
It feels like I can't appreciate swings in general. Like they don't give enough for the time invested. I can't understand how they could be the most essential KB exercise. I sometimes think that I am somehow missing on something. Or that I just can't see what exactly the swings could give me back.
Adachi
Level 7 Valued Member
my thing about the 24kg snatch compared to my experience with the swing at various weights is that the snatch has paid me back, but there is this trend that I find I have to ponder a bit about how the exercise works in long-term adaptations.
I think I see a paradox.
Snatch
"It takes power to make power"
I feel like maybe there was a time when I was performing the snatch and not getting near the dividends I'm getting now.
I think there's a more strict bar to entry, for getting results. Not night and day, but ... it's not the same as the swing.
Swing
"It slices, it dices, ... , it makes you stronger, AND more powerful"
but on the swing side, I find the dosing to have a much broader range of effective loading parameters.
I can more easily with more weights find that sets of 5 or sets of 10 or even sets of 15 get me results across 4 to 6 weeks.
the number of combinations of sets reps and weights that are useful to me is a longer more varied list.
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the snatch seems to narrow up the range of loading that predictably pays back.
but when it's good, it's very good.
I think I see a paradox.
Snatch
"It takes power to make power"
I feel like maybe there was a time when I was performing the snatch and not getting near the dividends I'm getting now.
I think there's a more strict bar to entry, for getting results. Not night and day, but ... it's not the same as the swing.
Swing
"It slices, it dices, ... , it makes you stronger, AND more powerful"
but on the swing side, I find the dosing to have a much broader range of effective loading parameters.
I can more easily with more weights find that sets of 5 or sets of 10 or even sets of 15 get me results across 4 to 6 weeks.
the number of combinations of sets reps and weights that are useful to me is a longer more varied list.
------------------------
the snatch seems to narrow up the range of loading that predictably pays back.
but when it's good, it's very good.
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tomstranger
Level 6 Valued Member
Over the past ~10 months I have run 2 x 12 weeks cycles of Q&D. The first time I was doing the swings (2H 32kg) and push-ups version roughly 3x/week and fitting in some minimal grinds as well. After that I started 11 weeks of mandatory CrossFit workouts at work and was able to slide right in and keep up, seemingly an endorsement that what I was doing had prepared me for a wildly different task, even though I hadn’t “felt” like I gained much from it.
About a month ago I completed twelve weeks of running the snatch version with mostly sets of 5 reps using a 24kg bell 2x/week. On my off days I was focused on squatting and benching, but I also had some silly BS body weight workouts for work. I felt like the snatches pushed my conditioning a lot higher than the swings and push-ups did, and I also felt my strength went up. It’s hard to know how much of that to attribute to the squats, but I’m now doing A+A snatches with 32kg, something I wasn’t comfortable with before, and when I snatch 24kg I feel like it’s in danger of going into orbit. My power just feels much better.
About a month ago I completed twelve weeks of running the snatch version with mostly sets of 5 reps using a 24kg bell 2x/week. On my off days I was focused on squatting and benching, but I also had some silly BS body weight workouts for work. I felt like the snatches pushed my conditioning a lot higher than the swings and push-ups did, and I also felt my strength went up. It’s hard to know how much of that to attribute to the squats, but I’m now doing A+A snatches with 32kg, something I wasn’t comfortable with before, and when I snatch 24kg I feel like it’s in danger of going into orbit. My power just feels much better.