Kettlebell Q&D 30 second sprint test results

[Oscar]

I'm starting Q&D snatches and have tested with 20 and 24 kg. I dont have an accelerometer so I did the 30 second test. These were my results:

Left/ right:
- 20 kg: sustained the 30 seconds, 16/ 17 reps.
- 24 kg: sustained the 30 seconds, 16/17 reps.

I'm finding it a bit difficult to interpret the results.

Since I sustained the 30 seconds with the 24, I should have tested the 28 as per the book. But I have never snatched the 28 for more than 5 reps, so that bell is out of the question for now.

On the other hand, how am I gonna improve the amount of reps in the 30 seconds test? Even if the results are astounding and I make the 24 feel like the 20 feels now, I didnt do more reps with the 20 than the 24 this time. I might be able to sneak 1 more rep by overspend eccentric, but that's about it. I'm not saying the program will not bring results, I'm just saying the results might not manifest in the test.

So I wonder if the only way of improving the 30 second test results is if you had to stop by the 20th second, and after the cycle you reach with power the 30 seconds?

What are the typical results of the 30 seconds snatch sprint, if the 30 seconds are completed? I recall @Sean M reached 15 with the 28? @Steve W. What about your tests?

Someone else ran the test? @Harald Motz @jef @John Grahill ?

 

[Steve W.]

@Steve W. What about your tests?

I don't use the 30 second test (or the accelerometer test).

I can power through 30 seconds with bells that are too heavy to use for 5 series of actual Q&D practice.

The same would be true for a 5 rep accelerometer test -- for a given swing height or for a snatch (where height is always the same), power will be proportional to bell size. In my experience and observation, the time for a swing or snatch will only vary very marginally due to conscious effort, and everyone who has posted accelerometer results on this forum has gotten this result (bigger bell = higher power).

So my bell test for Q&D is to use the heaviest bell I can complete 5 series with, without killing myself and without having to dial back the "volume knob" too much to do it. I want to leave a margin for improvement where I can become more aggressive with overspeed eccentrics and snatch cadence over time. So a bell where I can be really aggressive right from the start is too light, but one that is too much of a struggle or where I have to dial back the volume too much is too heavy.

The "5 series" test is my bell test, not the shorter tests from the book.

But I'm really not fixating too much on testing or progressing bell size. I'm just trying to do sessions and series consistently and taking a patient "park bench" attitude toward "progress."

For instance, during the week, I mostly do individual series spread out throughout the day in my office at work. I do some series with double cleans with 2 x 28kg. That's too heavy for me to do more than one series at a time. However, for snatches I'm usually doing two series in a row with 24kg. That's really too light (I'm using 26kg for continuous full sessions when I have time on weekends, and I could definitely push it to 28kg, especially doing only one or two series at a time), but I have a 24kg in the office and I can snatch it easily without chalk so it is more practical for office use.

 

[Sean M]

I’m with @Steve W. on the “5 series” test bell method. While I did snatch 28kg for 30 seconds with power, I had a hard time going 5 series of 5/4 (in particular) with that bell.

I would suggest for you: use 24kg and take the test again in a month or 6 weeks, see if the reps go up even more or if you feel more powerful.

 

[Provx]

Agreed, i feel the best way is to try to complete 5 series with a bell without feeling like you will die.

 

[Oscar]

In my experience and observation, the time for a swing or snatch will only vary very marginally due to conscious effort, and everyone who has posted accelerometer results on this forum has gotten this result.

That's exactly what I think. To me, increasing cadence is almost impossible, maybe one rep can be squeezed in the 30 seconds. What I find a pity is that i won't have any metrics to measure progress.

Maybe I should test with the 28 as well, and train with the 24? At least to have a metric. The problem is that I dont feel comfortable pushing it with 28.

For instance, during the week, I mostly do individual series spread out throughout the day in my office at work

Before the book came out, this is how I did S&S with a heavy bell: I would do a cluster (or series) of 4 sets of 5 reps in a GTG manner throughout the morning. So it was 5 clusters for 100 reps. Rest within the cluster was rather reduced, but I figured that whichever amount of lactate I generated would be washed before the next cluster, an hour or so later. Another important advantage is that I can count to 5, but not to 10. I always lose count if I do 10 sets, especially in a GTG fashion. I loved this arrangement.

 

[Harald Motz]

The "5 series" test is my bell test, not the shorter tests from the book.

I think this a very good metric. I did not the testing as presctibed in the book.
For my Q&D snatches I use 32kg or 40kg. Before the 044 protocol I used 40kg - 48kg for my A+A snatch work.

That's exactly what I think. To me, increasing cadence is almost impossible, maybe one rep can be squeezed in the 30 seconds. What I find a pity is that i won't have any metrics to measure progress.

exactly 'the lack of progress metric' makes Q&D appealing to me: I intent to go as powerfully/fast as I can go. It is going crazy 100%: 'going dead quickly' so to speak, recover then go hard again for another series, and that might just be enough.

An intention as Pavel lays it out in Q&D is this rapid and deep depletion of the ATP/CrP system. So personally I am somewhat pleased when I get onto the point where power begins to drop on the last 2 or 3 reps of the last set of a series a sign for me that I not held back and I burned my 'rocket fuel'.

In my opinion a great application also 'aha experience' of the 033/044 format is by performing hill sprints. I sprint four seconds jog back 26 seconds, then sprint 4 sec. again. Then I do pushups on the incline or just do hill sprint series. Again, I intent to go as fast as I can and after the last sprint of a series I am done and I am happy that I don't go one second longer per sprint or go for a fifth round per series. The intent, like with my snatching is 'going crazy', full throttle, all out...
Sprinting is probably the fastest way to get slow(er) and on one end of the speed - strength continuum.

So essentially at some point Q&D might never get much easier as you get more powerful. But over time the ability to recover should improve.

 

[Brett Jones]

Start with the 24kg and some back off days with the 20kg as needed.

 

[Oscar]

Thanks all for the replies.

I've been using the 24 for the last 2 weeks and so far so good. Haven't had an 80 or 100 reps session yet, so I'll see how those feel and if I can complete them powerfully. Maybe for the first few weeks I can use the 20 kg for the higher volume days, if required.

I went ahead and tested a sprint with the 28 kg and got 10 reps with each hand. It was a bit subjective, as I stopped when I felt the next rep would be grindy, but at least I'll have something to track progress with at the end of the cycle.