Strong Endurance Q&D alternative moves/exercises

[Georgiaoutdoors]

Experimenting with Q&D. Was wondering what alternative lifts/movements/exercises people have found appropriate for it. I like the general protocol but also enjoy some variety in the lifts and movements I do. Has anyone experimented with other exercises for Q&D such as:
pull-ups or lay pull downs
sledgehammer on a tire
medicine ball slams
etc?

 

[Ryan Toshner]

@Georgiaoutdoors , fast/high power movements with short eccentric phases (e.g. overspeed swings & snatches, jerks, pushups, band exercises) are best for the StrongEndurance template on which Q&D is based.

Medicine ball slams might produce similar results if you can catch the ball on the bounce without it affecting your pace. Pullups probably can't be performed with the requisite power or tempo (unless you can do 25+ reps or a single with an extra 50% of your body weight added). The same probably goes for sledgehammer slams; the "hit" is probably OK, but the "wind-up" might be too slow/take too long. Just some thoughts based on what exercises I know do produce similar results to the OG Q&D.

 

[Conor]

Have you tried incorporating the Viking Push Press or dips as mentioned in the book? Pavel discusses those as both good options, but didn’t include in the book as they aren’t as accessible to everyone in the spirit of the minimalism of Q&D.

 

[Red_and_Black]

Experimenting with Q&D. Was wondering what alternative lifts/movements/exercises people have found appropriate for it. I like the general protocol but also enjoy some variety in the lifts and movements I do. Has anyone experimented with other exercises for Q&D such as:
pull-ups or lay pull downs
sledgehammer on a tire
medicine ball slams
etc?

Dips instead of press-ups are the obvious one. Don't think the ones you suggest work the same at all, too much rest, not the same continuous pace of explosive power generation.

 

[Georgiaoutdoors]

@Georgiaoutdoors , fast/high power movements with short eccentric phases (e.g. overspeed swings & snatches, jerks, pushups, band exercises) are best for the StrongEndurance template on which Q&D is based.

Medicine ball slams might produce similar results if you can catch the ball on the bounce without it affecting your pace. Pullups probably can't be performed with the requisite power or tempo (unless you can do 25+ reps or a single with an extra 50% of your body weight added). The same probably goes for sledgehammer slams; the "hit" is probably OK, but the "wind-up" might be too slow/take too long. Just some thoughts based on what exercises I know do produce similar results to the OG Q&D.

What sort of band exercises? Could you do it with lat pulldowns or v-handle pulldowns using elastic resistance bands at the appropriate resistance?

 

[Chris Mills]

Seems perfect for erging (tugging on a rowing machine) or riding a stationary bike. Really anything with a power-meter that you can go hard enough to establish and then repeat an appropriate pace. I've done some erging with it (044) and it's perfect (as near as I can tell, as just some dude who read the book and tools around in his garage), but my attention span hasn't been long enough to keep it up for more than maybe 3-sessions. I do plan to in the next couple of months.

I also did it jumping rope (because I know I can do double-unders without stopping for the prescribed test period, and NO MORE, and I know how many I can do in the prescribed work time, so I figure it works perfect) for a while. Kept straining calf-muscles (at 52, I may be, alas, too old for double-unders) so couldn't keep it up.

I'm with @Red_and_Black on your examples (the ones I understand anyway, I don't know what "lay pull downs" are). Sledgehammer on a tire... there's just too much time involved with each swing and no real way to speed it up (depending on how heavy the hammer is, maybe) to a pace that you really could only maintain for XXs.

 

[vojtakubi]

In July i want to start another round of QnD mainly by the book, but also with some sprints in 044 way. Stair runs + pushups in 033 way and just stair runs in 044 way, maybe another quad dominant move with pushups.

 

[GaryT]

Experimenting with Q&D. Was wondering what alternative lifts/movements/exercises people have found appropriate for it. I like the general protocol but also enjoy some variety in the lifts and movements I do. Has anyone experimented with other exercises for Q&D such as:
pull-ups or lay pull downs
sledgehammer on a tire
medicine ball slams
etc?

You can do other exercises AFTER QD or off days for variety, no? As far as within the framework of a qd session, unsure of medicine ball slams, for example, because unsure if one can slam 10 reps within the timeframe of the big cat hunt; 16 seconds give or take to net the bio bennies outlined in the text, etc.

Otherwise, dips for push, squat jumps maybe for pull and, of course, 044 (snatch). Roll a die?

 

[mikhael]

What about Power Push-ups and Squat Jumps?

 

[Adachi]

What about Power Push-ups and Squat Jumps?

I believe the caution against jumping exercises is that the high volume invites injury. Maybe not for a healthy young practitioner, but for us older folks the joints might have a problem with a hypothetical 150-300 reps a week.

~1000 reps / month every month ?
Might be rough on the joints.

Maybe cycle them in periodically to mitigate the effects on the soft tissues in the joints?

 

[bluejeff]

Whenever this question is asked, I always go to this question:

Can you safely do the movement in question at a pace of about 10 reps every 10 seconds, AND as close as possible to 100% of your power output? If not, it is either an "innapropriate" movement or you cannot generate the requisite speed/power for it yet.

I believe the caution against jumping exercises is that the high volume invites injury. Maybe not for a healthy young practitioner, but for us older folks the joints might have a problem with a hypothetical 150-300 reps a week.

~1000 reps / month every month ?
Might be rough on the joints.

Maybe cycle them in periodically to mitigate the effects on the soft tissues in the joints?

That is a good point. I was able to use an interval template similar to Q&D with jumps, but I have always had great lower body mobility. I think the same concern could be raised for dips. In either case, I think it highlights the "advanced" part of the "advanced minimalist" part of the Q&D title. The individual needs to be well-enough trained to perform the moves in the way they are prescribed. Swings and pushups are the most accesible moves for most people...

 

[Red_and_Black]

Also, why bother changing it when it works? If you want some variety do some other stuff on days off, or just do a block of this then something else.

 

[Ryan Toshner]

What sort of band exercises? Could you do it with lat pulldowns or v-handle pulldowns using elastic resistance bands at the appropriate resistance?

Rows are listed in the template options. Could probably also do squats. Lat pulldowns with a band could be an option too, I suppose.

The key, however, is that the movements need to be done at a fast tempo (i.e. high RPM, no pauses between reps) with near full power (i.e. fast movement speed with moderately heavy weight). This protocol isn't meant to be done with slow movement. At least, not if you're after the specific benefits.

 

[wespom9]

I ran 4-6 weeks with a Viking Push Press and very much enjoyed that

 

[Sam Goldner]

I did sledgehammer hits on a tractor tire with the snatch template. The tire makes the wind up much faster because of the bounce back. The reps/time was similar to snatching (meaning, how many seconds it took to perform the 5 or 10 reps) so it should be an acceptable exercise substitution.
Biomechanically, sledgehammering is a good complement to snatching in that the power portion and recovery of the two exercises are inverted.

 

[Keen]

I use swings + dips &/or swings + heavy battle-ropes.

Quite a few variations you can try with the heavy battle-ropes that keeps it interesting.
I feel it works very well for me in that program

 

[Facher]

I ran 4-6 weeks with a Viking Push Press and very much enjoyed that

How, exactly, is the VPP different from a push press? Or thruster? And what were your results with it?

 

[Pete L]

How, exactly, is the VPP different from a push press? Or thruster? And what were your results with it?

From a post almost exactly a year ago.

Kettlebell - Snatch or Swing in Q & D

Hi there, I have a question about the Quick and the Dead. After reading the book, I understand the training but there is one thing that isn't completely clear to me and I am hoping somebody can explain it. Is it correct that a Q & D session is either: 'Swings and push ups' OR 'Snatches'. In...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Georgiaoutdoors]

I use swings + dips &/or swings + heavy battle-ropes.

Quite a few variations you can try with the heavy battle-ropes that keeps it interesting.
I feel it works very well for me in that program

I was just thinking that! I have a battle rope already.

 

[wespom9]

How, exactly, is the VPP different from a push press? Or thruster? And what were your results with it?

See video above. I found it got me strong in the standard press (can't recall my exact improvement right now) and also was a really nice upper body power move. I liked it more than the pushup as it drives home the full body connection