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Barbell Question about O-Lifts and Consistency with Long-Term Goals

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Wyanokie

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I'm hoping to get the opinions of others, as I am at a crossroads in my training!

About me, 49 years old, good shape and good mobility. Primary activities are muay Thai, hiking, and kettlebell lifts. Have been working with kettlebells, Indian clubs and mobility routines consistently for the past two years. 4 years ago I had a movement screen and scored a 78%, two months ago had the same movement screen at the same location and scored a 92%, plus I'm stronger now than 4 years ago. Things are looking up!

About my goals: I realize that this is a bit nonspecific, but the best way to describe my goals is that over the course of my life, I want to continue to learn new strength skills, get stronger and maintain or improve mobility, as long as I am still conserving quality of movement and not being injured. IOW I don't want to pursue any endeavors that would trash my body in the long-term for short-term gains. Dan John's quote of "I want to dance with my daughter at her wedding" resonates with me more than the idea of any PR's, etc. I want to carry my own groceries, hike with my grandchildren, and pick myself up off the floor in case of a fall when I'm in my 80's. That being said I don't want to be so conservative that I don't challenge myself and push myself enough to get stronger in different ways, and have fun doing it!

So the crossroads that I am at: I have a very good, established olympic weighlifting gym 30 minutes from me, and I also have an interest in learning the lifts. At this time I'm not interested in competing as much as learning the lifts, challenging myself in new ways, and safely getting stronger. My big question is whether learning olympic lifts now aligns with my goals of longevity? I've heard stories of older lifters in the gym (O-lifters in their 70's and even 80's) still performing impressive feats, but I don't know if they are outliers or not. Will incorporating the O-lifts (pursued with good coaching and reasonable weights) allow me to get stronger/better over the years and still maintain my joint/spine health and mobility, or is the risk of trashing my body too high if I pursue this now?

Thank you (very much) for any help you can offer!

Wyanokie
 
You are never too young or too old to learn a new skill, and olympic lifting is "a lot" of skill.
Are you gonna get injured? You shouldn't. Take your time, learn all the progressions and you will be a strong and healthy men.
 
@Wyanokie I don't know for sure but I can tell you that I'm enjoying my journey so far, 1.5 years into Olympic Lifting. Much like you, when I started, 52 years old, good shape, good mobility, primary activities were yoga, cycling, kettlebell lifts, and barbell strength. I, too, wanted to continue to learn new strength skills, get stronger, maintain or improve mobility, and preserve quality of movement and not get injured.

I can say that so far, learning weightlifting has met these goals. My movement quality has gone thorough some interesting evolutions and I've learned some lessons (#1 is don't stop doing get-ups occasionally, lol), but right now I would say that it's quite good.

The key is, just as you said, good coaching and reasonable weights. It's very easy to mis-dose this stuff! A coach can get you on the right track, as well as building your technique as you develop your body, skill, strength, power, and mobility. And I can't prove it, but I think my joints, spine, muscles, posture, and overall health is as good or better than before I started O-lifting.

If you have any other questions I can offer insight on I'd be happy to tell you more. It's a long road, and I have a long way ahead, but definitely enjoying it so far.
 
Good coaching is key, but that's not always easy to find. And even a good coach may miss certain things given that the lifts happen so quickly. For example, in the past, whenever I tried to do overhead squats I would get shoulder impingement. I had read articles saying that some people have shoulder anatomies that make them more prone to impingement. I thought I was one of those. Then I read (or perhaps saw a video, I can't tell anymore) about the correct way to hold the bar in the overhead squat. Once I adopted the correct overhead position my impingement issues went away.

Some lifters also experience the bar "crashing" on them in the clean, which can put some wear and tear on the body. This "crash" is caused by poor pulling technique. I recently changed my pulling technique and the bar lands almost "gently" right where it needs to land on the front of my shoulders.

The short answer to your question is that the Olympic lifts are great and are worth learning. I do not think that age by itself is a barrier to learning the lifts. Prior injuries could create issues if there is lots of scar tissue or instability in a joint, but prior injuries don't care about age - someone in their late 20s could be dealing with an injury the suffered in high school.
 
Many thanks to all for the responses! I'll be visiting the gym with my sons (ages 10 and 13) either tonight or next week. I hope they like it and that this can be one more thing we can do together as father and sons. They've had an interest in working out with me for about a year now, and we do kettlebell movements and muay Thai together already.
 
We began the journey last Friday! They went over overhead squats, snatch pulls and hang snatches with us. On Saturday I ran out and got a pair of broom handles and we practiced together on Sunday. We went again yesterday. The best part is the coaching is good, and my sons are loving it.

I do want to ask a question: I have some arthritis/tendonitis in the knee, and I've been going to PT for about 5 weeks now for the tendonitis. My PT says that my glutes, although strong, were not firing properly during lunges (hence why they were aggravated during the TGU). She gave me exercises to work on the glutes going forward. Now I noticed that the OH squats and some of the snatch positions seem quad-dominant, can anyone recommend strategies to keep glutes engaged during these lifts to protect the knee, or is it just the nature of these lifts that the quads will bear the brunt of the force?
 
Wyanokie said:
We began the journey last Friday! They went over overhead squats, snatch pulls and hang snatches with us. On Saturday I ran out and got a pair of broom handles and we practiced together on Sunday. We went again yesterday. The best part is the coaching is good, and my sons are loving it.

I do want to ask a question: I have some arthritis/tendonitis in the knee, and I've been going to PT for about 5 weeks now for the tendonitis. My PT says that my glutes, although strong, were not firing properly during lunges (hence why they were aggravated during the TGU). She gave me exercises to work on the glutes going forward. Now I noticed that the OH squats and some of the snatch positions seem quad-dominant, can anyone recommend strategies to keep glutes engaged during these lifts to protect the knee, or is it just the nature of these lifts that the quads will bear the brunt of the force?
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Good to hear!

I think if you do the PT exercises as the PT recommends, plus the O-lifting progressions as the coach teaches them and focusing intently on the details of the movement, you'll be in good shape.
 
Congrats on starting your Oly-lifting journey. As everybody already pointed out, if you do it correctly and with patience there is no harm in getting started in something new. enjoy the process and see where the road will lead to. I also believe there is some skill stacking in athletics in general. So what I mean by it, is that you will probably pick up the movements rather quickly because of your strength background.
Regarding your tendonitis I can only speak from personal experience. What I found with myself and students of me is that foam rolling the quads and stretching them regularly helps a lot. Muscle balance around the knee joint seems to play a big role too. Are the adductors/hammies/TFL/Glutes etc. all nearly equally strong? Just my thoughts.
 
You might want to do a bit of a homemade assessment for mobility and/or tolerance for the movements before you commit. It might pay to do this under the eye or advice of a coach if possible.

1- Can you front squat with a solid clean-grip/front rack?
2- Can you overhead squat, or maybe do a sots-press-in-snatch .... with a true snatch grip.
3- Can you do a snatch deadlift, with a real snatch grip width, and keep you back in extension.

...that should test your hip, back, ankle, elbow, shoulder mobility.
Being really proficient in those movements will help once you start to learn the full lifts (snatch and C&J).
 
mbasic said:
You might want to do a bit of a homemade assessment for mobility and/or tolerance for the movements before you commit. It might pay to do this under the eye or advice of a coach if possible.

1- Can you front squat with a solid clean-grip/front rack?
2- Can you overhead squat, or maybe do a sots-press-in-snatch .... with a true snatch grip.
3- Can you do a snatch deadlift, with a real snatch grip width, and keep you back in extension.

...that should test your hip, back, ankle, elbow, shoulder mobility.
Being really proficient in those movements will help once you start to learn the full lifts (snatch and C&J).
Click to expand...

As a 51 year old lifter, while I only practice the actual competition lifts 3x a week, I work on mobility *every day*.

I walk and overhead squat /snatch balance with a Rogue war bar (PVC 28mm bar with markings) twice a day on work days (5 days a week), once at lunch, once after work.

I do a light hip mobility routine (90-90 stretch, pigeon pose, quad stretch, hip flexor stretch) and "world's greatest stretch" (t-spine, hip extension) every single night before dinner.

TGUs/windmills/ club and mace work twice a week on variety days.
 
watchnerd said:
As a 51 year old lifter, while I only practice the actual competition lifts 3x a week, I work on mobility *every day*.

I walk and overhead squat /snatch balance with a Rogue war bar (PVC 28mm bar with markings) twice a day on work days (5 days a week), once at lunch, once after work.

I do a light hip mobility routine (90-90 stretch, pigeon pose, quad stretch, hip flexor stretch) and "world's greatest stretch" (t-spine, hip extension) every single night before dinner.

TGUs/windmills/ club and mace work twice a week on variety days.
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Good stuff, thank you watchnerd. Coincidentally I've been working a lot on T-spine mobility the last few weeks since beginning the training. I will look up the "world's greatest stretch", haven't seen that one yet.

BTW, yesterday I was smoothly doing the full hang snatch (including the overhead squat) pretty seamlessly with the broom handle. Time to start using the barbell!
 
Wyanokie said:
BTW, yesterday I was smoothly doing the full hang snatch (including the overhead squat) pretty seamlessly with the broom handle. Time to start using the barbell!
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Nice! I'm sat here doing some stretches with my broom handle right now.

You'll never be too strong to benefit from the broom handle. The broom handle is your friend.
 
Lots of good helpful comments above:) I'd consider a few things first.
A. How well do you move? Weightlifting IE the competition lifts the snatch and CJ require excellent mobility to be performed correctly. Most humans these days could benefit from more mobility work and general more accessible strength work. If you want to "get better at mobility learning the olympic lifts is like putting the cart before the horse, if that makes sense.
B. If you move well and can access the positions for the competition lifts, I'd ask yourself how much bandwidth do you have to devote to learning the lifts? They require a ton of technique practice, refinement and mental practice. If you're looking for something to keep you strong and to be able to "dance with your daughter at her wedding" there are more accessible avenues.
C. If the idea of leaning the snatch and CJ excite you and you move well, weightlifting is a wonderful endeavor that truly has no substitute in the strength world and can be wonderful and life changing.

I'm no expert in the weightlifting world but I have been at it competitively and coach it for over 10 years now and am SF:)

-Mira
 
Wyanokie said:
We began the journey last Friday! They went over overhead squats, snatch pulls and hang snatches with us. On Saturday I ran out and got a pair of broom handles and we practiced together on Sunday. We went again yesterday. The best part is the coaching is good, and my sons are loving it.

I do want to ask a question: I have some arthritis/tendonitis in the knee, and I've been going to PT for about 5 weeks now for the tendonitis. My PT says that my glutes, although strong, were not firing properly during lunges (hence why they were aggravated during the TGU). She gave me exercises to work on the glutes going forward. Now I noticed that the OH squats and some of the snatch positions seem quad-dominant, can anyone recommend strategies to keep glutes engaged during these lifts to protect the knee, or is it just the nature of these lifts that the quads will bear the brunt of the force?
Click to expand...
The competition lifts are quad based lifts and dynamic in nature. The reception is what will hurt your knees over time and increase the tendonitis. IE catching the bounce. Working to strengthen the glut medius, doing hamstring curls and having adequate tibial rotation in the knee will help but tendonitis will become chronic and then it's an tendonopathy which is best dealt with ave medical practitioner :)
 
mgracia said:
f you move well and can access the positions for the competition lifts, I'd ask yourself how much bandwidth do you have to devote to learning the lifts? They require a ton of technique practice, refinement and mental practice. If you're looking for something to keep you strong and to be able to "dance with your daughter at her wedding" there are more accessible avenues.
Click to expand...

This is an important point and one I'm glad you raised. I'm not planning on competing any time soon precisely because of lack of bandwidth. For someone looking to gain the benefits of the lifts without an interest in competing, kettlebell swings, especially heavy swings (which is what I'm doing), should cover that. Curious as to what your thoughts are.
 
mgracia said:
Lots of good helpful comments above:) I'd consider a few things first.
A. How well do you move? Weightlifting IE the competition lifts the snatch and CJ require excellent mobility to be performed correctly. Most humans these days could benefit from more mobility work and general more accessible strength work. If you want to "get better at mobility learning the olympic lifts is like putting the cart before the horse, if that makes sense.
B. If you move well and can access the positions for the competition lifts, I'd ask yourself how much bandwidth do you have to devote to learning the lifts? They require a ton of technique practice, refinement and mental practice. If you're looking for something to keep you strong and to be able to "dance with your daughter at her wedding" there are more accessible avenues.
C. If the idea of leaning the snatch and CJ excite you and you move well, weightlifting is a wonderful endeavor that truly has no substitute in the strength world and can be wonderful and life changing.

I'm no expert in the weightlifting world but I have been at it competitively and coach it for over 10 years now and am SF:)

-Mira
Click to expand...

@mgracia Hi Mira, thank you for the input on this! Regarding question A: so far so good. I'm only snatching the 35lb bar and doing C and J with the 45 lb bar, but the coach has been very complementary on my mobility and technique so far. Of course it's only been about 5 weeks so time will tell. I work on my mobility, especially t-spine and hip mobility, separately almost every day, which I think is helping a lot. The coach has said that he's seen progress in mobility from week to week.

Regarding bandwidth, I do love the journey so far and I can set aside 2 or 3 solid days a week to work on it. To be honest I am feeling a bit torn today and yesterday. I realize that doing this is a big commitment and I am not one to half-step on a journey like this, so I'm all in. The part I'm torn about is that I don't want my practice of kettlebells to suffer either, and I do feel that I need to largely put them aside for the time being, if nothing more than to "empty my cup" (borrowing from a quote from Bruce Lee) to get the most out of the O-lift coaching. Since I'm doing well as per the coach and hitting the groove I'm planning on staying with it for the time being and immersing myself in the study of the lifts for now. An added bonus is that I'm doing it with my sons, so it's more bonding time with them, plus I think I inspire them because they see me work as hard as I do.
mgracia said:
The competition lifts are quad based lifts and dynamic in nature. The reception is what will hurt your knees over time and increase the tendonitis. IE catching the bounce. Working to strengthen the glut medius, doing hamstring curls and having adequate tibial rotation in the knee will help but tendonitis will become chronic and then it's an tendonopathy which is best dealt with ave medical practitioner :)
Click to expand...

Hopefully we don't go down that route. I'm planning on listening to my body for sure. The tendonitis is gone now and there has been no pain in the knees from the lifts. I do feel a little tightness in the knees, probably from what you mentioned about the lifts being quad-based, and I'm honoring that with lots of stretching and foam rolling consistent with the advice from @LLT .

I made a promise to myself to be smart about this. It would not make me happy to have to walk away from it but I suppose I should be ready to if that's what my body demands. Hopefully if I hit any major obstacles I can adjust where/when necessary and keep it going.

Thank you again!
 
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