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Kettlebell Question regarding combining A+A with other protocols

ThereWolf

First Post
Hello,

I'm new to the forum but have been reading StrongLifts articles for some time and recently purchased the "Kettlebell StrongFirst" course. I have an hour in the morning to train each day, and plan to do 5 days of Simple and Sinister and 2 days of A+A each week. However, both of these programs are approximately half-hour programs, which leaves me with an additional half hour of time at my disposal. I would like to try to make the most of this time by switching gears and implementing a second, distinct type of conditioning workout in the second half of the hour. I like the idea of adding a 15/15 snatch workout after S&S, or goblet squats and loaded carries after A+A, Dan John's "Bear/Bear", etc. However, I don't know if that would interfere with the aims of A+A and S&S, and I'm curious to know whether any of you have had success with something similar. Any insight or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
A+A benefits from having some zone 2 (low intensity) cardio... So I would do the A+A swings/snatches then go for a ruck or light jog where you can nasal breathe the entire time

The KBSF swing program goes for 40min and is essentially an A+A s&s program might run that instead
 
i agree with the comments on adding 30min of aerobics (Jane Fonda workout?). Also add 1or2 days of stretching per week. My Polar running programs call for 1 dynamic and 1 static stretching session per week of 20-25 min each. I add a longer warmup to make 30min. I try to maintain this stretching routine even when I'm not on a specific running program.

the static stretches are typically done on days without other training. so I'm not sure how you would fit this in considering your 7 days/week training.
 
ThereWolf said:
Hello,

I'm new to the forum but have been reading StrongLifts articles for some time and recently purchased the "Kettlebell StrongFirst" course. I have an hour in the morning to train each day, and plan to do 5 days of Simple and Sinister and 2 days of A+A each week. However, both of these programs are approximately half-hour programs, which leaves me with an additional half hour of time at my disposal. I would like to try to make the most of this time by switching gears and implementing a second, distinct type of conditioning workout in the second half of the hour. I like the idea of adding a 15/15 snatch workout after S&S, or goblet squats and loaded carries after A+A, Dan John's "Bear/Bear", etc. However, I don't know if that would interfere with the aims of A+A and S&S, and I'm curious to know whether any of you have had success with something similar. Any insight or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
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To be honest, I don't think this sounds like a sustainable approach.

You are basically planning to do 7 hours of conditioning with 14 distinctly programmed sessions. Pavel usually recommends against mixing S&S with other A+A work - but some people are happy with it anyway.

Btw, I think for most people, S&S takes longer than 30 minutes, with warmups, cooldowns and heavy enough weights.

If you want to add something AND are able to recover from it, I would shift gears ain a different way:
- Some easy strength work (pushups, etc.) AND/OR
- Some aerobic work (walking, jogging, cycling, rowing, etc.)
 
I have some experience with A+A protocols and the best success I had (felt strong, performed well in martial arts, moved good with my kids…) I did it like this:

- 2-4x A+A snatches per week (waving the volume, up to 60 repeats per session, but mainly sticked around 30 repeats)
- 1-2x LSS work (step ups, rows, runs, weight vest walks). I always try to do one longer session per week.
- Low volume strength work. I mostly stick to Deadlifts and KB-Presses (maybe some GTG pullups). Either Easy Strength style or just 2 sessions per week.

As A+A volume increases I even did not find it necessary to add further strength work (You will feel it). High volume snatches with a heavish kettlebell does not leave you much room to add stuff.

Don‘t forget to move through all the possibilities your body has. Do some goblet squats for your warm up, carry something around before or after your training. Add OS resets etc.

About S&S:
I would not mix it with A+A work. Do S&S several times per week and just add LSS work to it. I think the magic about S&S is the minimalism and the simplicity. You can rotate some weeks/months of S&S with purer A+A work. Consistency….
 
I appreciate all the replies. I have been trying to implement S&S as a daily practice, because I thought that it was meant to be a daily (5-7 per week anyhow) practice. When I read Pavel’s article on A+A, the one titled “The Best All-Around Training Method”, it called for C+J, twice per week. It just seemed natural to sub out two days of S&S with A+A. I had also been reading about the old “Viking warrior conditioning” snatch protocols, and watching a lot of Dan John’s videos describing stuff like “The Eagle”, Armor-Building Complex, etc. and I think I’m suffering from a case of “gotta do all this stuff right now!” I’ll try sticking with a minimal program followed by some rucking or whatnot and see if I can sustain that, and if I have anything left in the tank, experiment with it. Thanks again.
 
if your aim is to train 1hour a day almost everyday, then I think that the traditional 'minimalist approach' is not for you, i.e. only do S&S or only this, or only that. you have to mix up your training types. for me, 1hour of KB everyday will be too boring/stagnant after a while, if not dangerous. I strongly suggest that you find another sport to cover 1or3 hours/week. social or solo, as long as you engage your mind/body in a different format.

the points made about rotating every few weeks/months is crucial. I would choose a minimalist program, an alternate sport, a stretching regime to fill 7hours/week, do it for 7 weeks (just because 7 days, 7 hours, 7 weeks) and change the minimalist program and/or sport. then review what works/ does not work for you after 7 months.

in total, I aim for 5 days/week and about 3-4 hours of training. This is about the most I can do given my lifestyle.
My kb days (2or3 per week) are 30 min sessions...maybe 40 if I am tired (slower warmup or extended cooldown).
my run days (2or3 per week). It ideally includes 1 short fast (<45min), 1 long medium-slow (60min), and 1 very long and very slow (>90min). I had to take a break from training so rebuilding my running capacity over the past month, for now most of my runs are <45min and I will start adding time/mileage by the end of this month.
and I stretch 1or2 days per week. 20 minutes of stretching and I fillup to 30 min with anything that takes my fancy and keeps my HR above 60%. OTM swings or jumping jacks or pushups, or just pacing around and flapping my hands if I'm tired :)

I change the focus of my training blocks every 6-8 weeks:
now, I'm focused on running 30-45 min and KB deadlifts, swings, lunges.
mid-April: will focus on the 90+min weekend run, and KB swings+TGU ->
May: I plan to go wall-climbing with my son 1or2/month, will figure out the details as I go along
June: too far ahead.
 
Bauer said:
Btw, I think for most people, S&S takes longer than 30 minutes, with warmups, cooldowns and heavy enough weights.
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This was true for me. Swings alone would push 20 minutes for me as I started working with 32kg. That certainly was true when I went to 36kg.

Frankly, I agree that A+A with LSD is a better combo than what you’re thinking. In an hour, you can do a longer A+A session (complete with warmup and cooldown). On other days, you can do an hour of LSD (walk, ruck, whatever). You can do 4+3 each week, or 4+2, 3+3, whatever balance works for you. But I think you’re not going to be happy with 30 minutes each of S&S/A+A and something else every day.
 
Bauer said:
To be honest, I don't think this sounds like a sustainable approach.
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Totally agree w/this.

I must have missed your intro of your age, current state of fitness and activity. But, the S&S protocol is more demanding than it may seem.
You'd be well advised to find a recovery program for the other days - light rucking/walking as mentioned above. Also - check out the OS resets/combinations (like crawling too) if you want to try something interesting and different that most bodies enjoy.
 
TedM said:
I must have missed your intro of your age, current state of fitness and activity.
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Sorry, I didn't include that in my initial post (I meant to, but forgot); I am 36 years old, healthy, but rather out of shape. I take 8-10-mile hikes regularly and can swing my 60-lb kettlebell one-handed with relative ease, but my flexibility, cardio (i.e., ability to sustain a jog), etc. are lacking, and I have a desk job that often requires me to spend 10+ hours in front of the computer. I try to walk each day and have been doing swings, but not in a properly structured way. I'm currently working on fixing some knee pain that has made TGUs very difficult (when trying to drive off the floor, the knee pain is the limiting factor - I messed up both of them playing basketball years ago).

To be clear, I was hoping to have a sort of "goal routine" to work towards over time and wasn't planning to dive right into a full hour of training 7 days per week. My thinking was that I would try to get to the point where I could complete S&S with a 55lb kettlebell (I only have three: a 16kg, 55lb, and a 60lb) every day, consistently, then try to do that within a 30-35 minute window, then swap out a couple of days per week with A+A style clean & jerk workouts, then eventually start using the rest of the hour to do some conditioning of some kind. I realize, in retrospect and after reading through these replies, that I was likely being too ambitious, even in the long term.

For a while I was doing MMA training several times per week (kickboxing and BJJ classes) but had to quit because I needed surgery (not injury-related, but medical - I'm all healed up now), and I haven't been able to return due to medical and other expenses. I am hoping to get myself back to training MMA in about 6 months (financially and physically), and figured this could be the route to go.
 
I think there is a big misconception with S&S and it being "minimalist" = easy, doesn't take a long time. when I was running S&S seriously I was mix/matching 40kg & 44kg for the swings and 36kg for the getups... the session was taking upwards of around 45min not including the warm up/prep. I would take a 5ish min break between swings and getups
 
You will do far better either doing S&S or A+A.

On off days LED. Rucking or running are better than swimming, cycling or rowing. These last three are not inherently bad, they just lack the locomotion aspect...

(FWIW I say this after two years of S&S and three years of A+A))
 
Francisco said:
You will do far better either doing S&S or A+A.

On off days LED. Rucking or running are better than swimming, cycling or rowing. These last three are not inherently bad, they just lack the locomotion aspect...

(FWIW I say this after two years of S&S and three years of A+A))
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Agree.

Also, really encourage you to look at some of Geoff Neupert's programs and to learn about Original Strength work. Geoff has a WOD (workout of the day) program that might be good for you.

Many of us here are quite a bit older, and we can all say with confidence that if you are patient and kind to yourself during the journey, you'll be pleased with the destination.
 
Francisco said:
running are better than swimming,
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sorry, I gotta contradict. Swimming is the king of full body/mind/soul training, aerobics, strenght, flexibility, all of it. quiet space for the mind and there's just something about doing a few good laps that settles the soul. I"m not a good swimmer but all my research tells me that this is the best excercise for me. a simple gaze at athletes from different sports: swimmers typically have the best body-builds (and the acrobats). they match if not exceed the best fighters (boxing,MMA) and do not take the physical beating :)

@ThereWolf mentioned knee problems: investigate running in a pool.

Swimming is a logistical nightmare for me...get ready for the gymn, drive to the gymn, clock in, chat to random people, swim, shower, chat, clock out, drive home.
versus: change, pikup kettlebells, put down kettlebells, shower, still at home.
or put on shoes, run around the block, take off shoes, shower, still at home.
 
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