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Kettlebell Question regarding Kettlebell Press

Kev

Level 6 Valued Member
I live by C&Ps, its my all time favourite movement by a long shot.
What weight do you use for Giant?
Currently 2x25kg and I’m on 1.2 I think. The dude who made my kettlebells never properly explained why he made a 25kg mould instead of 24kg. I bought 2x28kg for the next complete cycle and I already own 2x32kg. So I’m planning a long haul with the Giant.
 

Kev

Level 6 Valued Member
Currently 2x25kg and I’m on 1.2 I think. The dude who made my kettlebells never properly explained why he made a 25kg mould instead of 24kg. I bought 2x28kg for the next complete cycle and I already own 2x32kg. So I’m planning a long haul with the Giant.
I need to track down a decent 40kg to go with the one I already own and then it’s a serious long haul.
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
Muscles principally dont push unless you consider it as a result of their swelling, e.g. tense the lat can lift the elbow at the start of the press.
(Or a worm burrowing)
Muscles pull or contract and the push is a result of the lever mechanics.
I think the clean action may be enough stimulation on the back muscles prior to the press to inhibit them during press thereby resulting in less antagonistic force and more agonist force.
Yeah, I realize that.... I guess I was trying to think of how our system could store more or less potential energy in the topic at hand. That's just where my brain went..
I think - I am also not a physics person - your thinking goes awry here. (Physics was required for me in the 11th grade but that was a long time ago. It's not a required course in music school.)

-S-
maybe springs was not the best analogy. . . but I think the reason my brain went there is that springs store elastic potential energy, I think muscles (maybe tendons moreso) do too.

Elastic potential energy is proportional to both the distance something is stretched or compressed, and to the degree of stiffness it exhibits (how much it resists being stretched or compressed). If you try to do plyometric movements (e.g. jumping on feet or plyo pushups) it is clearly easier to achieve greater height when you use a longer range of motion (greater distance of stretch). So to achieve the same jump height from a 90 degree knee (jumping) or elbow (plyo pushup) angle, you would need a greater degree of stiffness or contractibility.

Muscles do naturally tend to contract/tense as they are stretched, especially under high load/speeds (like a clean). The kinetic energy of the cleaned kettlebell has to go somewhere. With my limited exposure to the prinicples of physics in biomechanics I will make the conjecture that the kinetic energy of the bell is stored briefly as potential energy in the muscles. So my (perhaps flawed) train of thought is that a muscle that maintains higher tension can thus better release that potential energy as kinetic energy. If you stretch a tendon or muscle, you are putting elastic potential energy into it. I think the kicker is that if your muscle cannot maintain the same amount of elastisity (stiffness, "tension") then the potential energy will dissipate through the rest of your body, making the press more difficult.

I think the stretch reflex might be a good example of this. If you hit the bottom of a bench press and immediately rebound, the stretch reflex makes pressing back up easier. If you pause for too long, it's harder. There are biological mechanisms at work too, but there is also the physics part. Perhaps the kettlebell clean and press is a shortened, "micro" example of this.

Just being a nerd over here....... :)
 

bluejeff

Level 6 Valued Member
@bluejeff, our bodies - muscles, nerves, brain, tendons, joints - are a system. I think where many fail is in looking to one part or another as solely responsible for a particular event when it's always more complex than that.

-S-
I understand that :) I was just trying to add a layer of thinking to the topic at hand, which directly asked about "stored energy."
....This is kind of why I have always advocated not thinking about and dissecting a program....just do it! Guys smarter than I am devised them a certain way for a reason...
This is a great point. Most people don't want or need to know the "why." They just care whether something works or not. The original question, however, was a "why" type of question.
Is it because there is some stored energy in the lats when you clean that assists the press? I have no idea and I am only asking this out of curiosity to understand.


Let me be clear that I am not trying to be argumentative or in any way trying to "one-up" anyone's points. All I was trying to do was contribute some additional thoughts to the conversation around the original question :) I thought it was a great question, and even many of the answers previously provided support what I was trying to articulate.
 

Pete L

Level 5 Valued Member
I understand that :) I was just trying to add a layer of thinking to the topic at hand, which directly asked about "stored energy."

This is a great point. Most people don't want or need to know the "why." They just care whether something works or not. The original question, however, was a "why" type of question.



Let me be clear that I am not trying to be argumentative or in any way trying to "one-up" anyone's points. All I was trying to do was contribute some additional thoughts to the conversation around the original question :) I thought it was a great question, and even many of the answers previously provided support what I was trying to articulate.
...and similarly... I was not trying to patronise.
I enjoy trying to figure these things out.
I think it helps when committing so much time to training.
But ultimately what works works; as @John Grahill said above.
 
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