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Barbell Questions about 5x5x5 Mind Over Muscle program

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Alex Nguyen

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Hello everyone,
I have a few questions regarding the Mind Over Muscle program that Pavel outlined in the Beyond Bodybuilding book. Here is a link to the program: Mind Over Muscle: The Real Secret To Amazing Strength Gains Is All Mental.. Basically, the program involves working out 5 days a week with 5 lifts per day, 1 set of 5 reps for each lift with a weight that you are comfortable with on that day. Pavel recommended choosing compound movements that cover the entire body. For example, my routine looks like this:

1. Deadlift 1x5
2. Inclined DB Press 1x5
3. BB Curl 1x5
4. DB Row 1x5
5. Pulldowns 1x5

My current numbers for the 5 rep max are (on my best day):

1. Deadlift 245 lbs
2. Inclined DB Press 65 lbs each hand
3. BB Curl 55 lbs
4. DB Row 75 lbs each hand
5. Pulldowns 150 lbs (on the machine)

I have just finished week 3 of the program. The program said that week 4 (this week) should be taper off, week 5 should be testing for a new PR. After that, Pavel advised switching to a different program. Here are my questions for Pavel or anyone that has had experience with this program before: why are the trainers recommended to switch to a different program? Can the trainers not rinse and repeat? I am asking this because I love this program. It is simple and is working well for me so far. If I could stick with it, I would.

Here is my lifting background in case it is needed: my goal is to focus on strength and get stronger on all of the lifts listed above. I am shooting for a Deadlift of 365 lbs, Inclined DB Press of 80 lbs, and 10 bodyweight pullups (I can only do 2 ugly reps of the pullups at the moment). I am male, 26 years old, 5'7'' and weigh 195 lbs.

Thank you for your time. Any help is much appreciated.
 
@Alex Nguyen, if the program is working well for you, you may continue it. Be sure to cycle back - after your testing for a new PR, recalculate your numbers so that they're heavier than your first time through, but they shouldn't be much heavier unless you've gotten much stronger. Allow yourself to progress throughout the program's duration again.

Please don't shoot for a 365 lb. deadlift, shoot for a 500 lb. deadlift, a 300 lbs. flat bench press, and 20 bodyweight pull-ups. All are achievable goals, all will require patience and several years training.

-S-
 
Here is my progress so far after 2 cycles of the program. I have been training 5 days a week. Due to my time conflict between work and gym open time, my schedule is ON ON ON ON OFF ON OFF instead of ON ON ON ON ON OFF OFF like Pavel suggested in the original template. For the deadlift, inclined press and row, the numbers I recorded are weight on each side. So if the number for the deadlift is 80, then the weight pulled is 80x2 + 45(weight of the empty bar) = 205. I used dumbbell for inclined press and row. The number behind the "=" sign is the total volume for each lift. I do a bit reverse-hyperextension and kettlebell squat/swings at the end of the training session for conditioning. I do not go crazy on it though, only enough to get the heart rate beating faster :). Anyway, here is my number:

1. First Cycle
First week


Deadlift 1x5 80 70 90 80 65 = 1925

Inclined Press 1x5 50 55 65 60 50 = 1400/side

Curl 1x5 45 50 50 50 40 = 1175

Row 1x5 60 60 60 60 55 = 1475/side

Pulldown 1x5 120 130 130 120 110 = 3050

Second week

DL 85 95 70 70 80 = 2000
IP 60 65 60 60 60 = 1525

Curl 50 55 50 50 50(6) = 2650
Row 65 75 65 70 75 = 1750

Pulldown 130 140 120 120 130 = 3200

Third week

DL 90 100 80 80 80 = 2150
IP 60 65 65 65 65 = 1600

Curl 55(6) 55(7) 60(meh) 55 50 = 2255
Row 75 80 75 75 75 = 1900

Pulldown 140 150 130 130 130 = 3400

Fourth week (Taper Off, 1 set of 3 for each exercise)

DL 1x3 90 105 80 80 70 = 1275
IP 1x3 60 70 65 65 60 = 960

Curl 1x3 55 60 55 55 50 = 825
Row 1x3 75 80 75 75 70 = 1125

Pulldown 1x3 140 150 130 140 130 = 2070

Fifth week - I had to travel for work so I pretty much took this week off. When I got back home, I started a new cycle. This time, I decided to ditch the Curl and add the overhead press (denoted Press) into the routine because I like OHP much better. For the deadlift, I found that the volume in cycle 1 was a bit too much for me to recover from, i.e. I was doing too much on the supposedly light days of the week (i.e. day 3rd, 4th and 5th when the fatigue has set in). That's why in the second cycle, I go lighter on the deadlift on day 3rd, 4th, and 5th. I feel that I recover a bit better now. Here is my numbers:

2. Second Cycle

First Week

DL 1x5 85 100 75 65 55 = 1900
Inclined 1x5 60 65 60 60 60 = 1525

Row 1x5 65 75 70 70 70 = 1750
Press 1x5 25 27.5 25 30 30 = 688

Pulldown 1x5 130 140 130 130 130 = 3300

Second Week

DL 90 105 70 70 65 = 2000
Inclined 65 70 65 65 60 = 1625

Row 70 75 70 70 70 = 1775
Press 30 35 30 30 30 = 775

Pulldown 140 150 140 130 130 = 3450

Third Week

DL 95 105 80 65 50 = 1975
Inclined 65 70 65 60 65 = 1625

Row 75 80(h) 70 70 65 = 1800
Press 35 35 35 30 30 = 825

Pulldown 140 150 140(h) 130 120 = 3400

Fourth Week (Taper Off – Sets of 3)

DL 95 110 80 65 65 = 1245
Inclined 70 75 70 65 60 = 1020

Row 75 80 75 70 65 = 1095
Press 35 40 35 30 25 = 495

Pulldown 140 150 130 120 110 = 1950

I did not test my max after the second cycle because I am not that interested in it. I gave myself 2 extra rest days (so 4 days in total instead of 2) and started a new cycle. For now, I have just finished week 1 of Cycle 3. I was OHPressing 125 for 5 reps yesterday which is a new PR for me. I have never been able to press 125 for 5 reps up until this point so I tribute this success to the program. My weight stay relatively constant throughout the entire time (~192 lbs).
Thank you for reading, I welcome any recommendations or criticism on the training.
 
Last edited:
Hi community, the C&P mentioned in the program, is meanted with KBs or BB?
Thanks

You could probably use kettlebells, though the barbell allows you to more easily wave the weights throughout a week and test at the end. But if you have many sets of kettlebells, you could probably pull it off.
 
Hello everyone,
I have a few questions regarding the Mind Over Muscle program that Pavel outlined in the Beyond Bodybuilding book. Here is a link to the program: Mind Over Muscle: The Real Secret To Amazing Strength Gains Is All Mental.. Basically, the program involves working out 5 days a week with 5 lifts per day, 1 set of 5 reps for each lift with a weight that you are comfortable with on that day. Pavel recommended choosing compound movements that cover the entire body. For example, my routine looks like this:

1. Deadlift 1x5
2. Inclined DB Press 1x5
3. BB Curl 1x5
4. DB Row 1x5
5. Pulldowns 1x5

My current numbers for the 5 rep max are (on my best day):

1. Deadlift 245 lbs
2. Inclined DB Press 65 lbs each hand
3. BB Curl 55 lbs
4. DB Row 75 lbs each hand
5. Pulldowns 150 lbs (on the machine)

I have just finished week 3 of the program. The program said that week 4 (this week) should be taper off, week 5 should be testing for a new PR. After that, Pavel advised switching to a different program. Here are my questions for Pavel or anyone that has had experience with this program before: why are the trainers recommended to switch to a different program? Can the trainers not rinse and repeat? I am asking this because I love this program. It is simple and is working well for me so far. If I could stick with it, I would.

Here is my lifting background in case it is needed: my goal is to focus on strength and get stronger on all of the lifts listed above. I am shooting for a Deadlift of 365 lbs, Inclined DB Press of 80 lbs, and 10 bodyweight pullups (I can only do 2 ugly reps of the pullups at the moment). I am male, 26 years old, 5'7'' and weigh 195 lbs.

Thank you for your time. Any help is much appreciated.

I think advised switching routines because (I believe, being that it was published in BB) it was devised as a way for bodybuilders who neglected strength training to quickly gain strength in basic movements to then allow them to go back to hypertrophy training with more strength. However, for an athlete or anyone looking to develop max strength without much regards to size, it can be used as long as it works. It is not so different than the 40 day protocol.

The 40-Day Program | T Nation

I loved the 5 x 5 x 5 when I used it and will definitely keep it in my back pocket.
 
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