Questions about PTTP

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
The good news is that just about anything and everything works with novice lifters (high school kids)
Haha, this is very true, my first year of weight training I did barbell bench press, squats and curls every day for a year and gained 30 lbs.
I had no clue, just wanted to get big.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Power

As Dr Fred Hatfield stated, "In the world of sports, Power is the King. This especially true with Judo.

Kettlebell Swing

This is a Power Movement. It needs to be performed with Power on each repetition.

Secondly, Kettlbell Swing are a "Pulling Movement". Judo is primarily a sport that is dominated by "Pulling Movements".

Thus, Kettlebells Swings preformed with Power should be a staple movement for Judo for optimal training.

Knowledge

As I previously noted, you need to invest more time in examining the research of training. Some of your post, like this one, provide misinformation.

Kenny Croxdale
I'm a complete amateur when it comes to exercise science.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Power

As Dr Fred Hatfield stated, "In the world of sports, Power is the King. This especially true with Judo.

Kettlebell Swing

This is a Power Movement. It needs to be performed with Power on each repetition.

Secondly, Kettlbell Swing are a "Pulling Movement". Judo is primarily a sport that is dominated by "Pulling Movements".

Thus, Kettlebells Swings preformed with Power should be a staple movement for Judo for optimal training.

Knowledge

As I previously noted, you need to invest more time in examining the research of training. Some of your post, like this one, provide misinformation.

Kenny Croxdale
A big difference between judo and lifting weights is that the "weight" you move in judo is intelligent and can move you around too. This turns common sense on its head. Power is important and I 100% agree that developing power through swings or olympic lifts is also important for judo, but it's a lot less important than a non-judoka or a low-level judoka would believe. Here is why:

If I apply power, I'm rooting my feet into the mat and pulling, yes, very much kettlebell swing like, back. The opponent needs to simply push me backwards and now I'm off balance and probably thrown onto my back. This was happening to me a lot for a few years during my early S&S training. Also, rooting my feet like this for an instant makes me into a stationary target, and so much easier to set up a throw on.

Real judo is terribly hard to learn and takes many years of intelligent, skillful training. It is sadly about tricking the opponent to move in such a way that you can set your own body up in a "throwing position" with his motion directionality aligned to where it needs to be as well as his point of balance in a particular position by the time your own body gets into place for the throw. It's awful! It's terribly hard to learn. Power definitely matters for confusing and disturbing the opponent during the set up, and for resisting his attacks, but during the throw it's more the weight of your body and where you place the leverage point (if any) that makes the guy fall than barbarically grabbing and jerking him. What is more is that you can be a lot smaller than the opponent, but if you know all his attacks, you can keep deftly positioning your body so as to thwart all of them. I remember once winning my super heavyweight division which entitled me to enter into the open weight division for all the different weight categories. Again, I won match after match, but who beat me? The guy who won the flyweight division! He deftly moved out of the danger positions I challenged him with and then ducked under me into a throwing posture as I took a step forward and he threw me to the ground with a perfect shoulder throw but the word "throw" isn't good here. What he really did was to take advantage of my movement and then to posture himself in a way that his body weight could pull me past my balance point. I actually rolled over him, he didn't pick me up at all. Some power, sure, but not an awful lot.

Power is still important though, no doubt. Something else however is what I'll call "body rigidity". If I can make my body rigid like a plank of wood, the opponent can't twist my body into an off balanced posture. This kind of skill more closely resembles slow grinds than power moves.

At the end of the day, lifting weights helps a great deal with judo or at least with aspects of judo, but it's an extremely skill dependent activity, like marksmanship.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
A big difference between judo and lifting weights is that the "weight" you move in judo is intelligent and can move you around too. This turns common sense on its head.
Common Sense

Everyone understands there is a difference between moving lifting a weight and moving someone around in Judo.. This is common sense; there nothing about it that turns common sense upside down.

Power is important and I 100% agree that developing power through swings or olympic lifts is also important for judo, but it's a lot less important than a non-judoka or a low-level judoka would believe.
It Not As Unimportant As You Believe.

Being a good technician in Judo, any sport, the primary.

Power and Strength are secondary vital components; more so that you realize.

Real judo is terribly hard to learn and takes many years of intelligent, skillful training.
Fill In The Blank

All sports require time to learn. More technical sports are "hard to learn and takes many years of intelligent, skillful training." Thus, Judo is not unique when it come to learning.

Thus, "Real Olympic Lifting is terribly hard to learn...", "Real Gymnastic is terribly hard to learn"...the list is endless.

Kuzushi/"Unbalancing The Opponent

A large part of Judo throws is Kuzushi, getting your opponent off balance and redirecting their energy to assistance you in throwing them.

It also about using their energy to assist you in the a throw.

As an example...

The opponent needs to simply push me backwards and now I'm off balance and probably thrown onto my back.
In pushing you back, your opponent is also going to be off balance. Rather than falling on your back, use some common sense.

Rather than resist his forward force, add to it. As he, pushes forward, pull him back into a throw. You want to harness and use their energy against them. Allow our opponent to assist you. That's just common sense.

Judo requires a lot of "Pulling Power and Strength". Thus, Power and Strength Training need to focus to a greater degree on Pulling Movements.

Power

Power is vital to Judo throws, more so than you appear to realize. Power allows you to hammer you opponent into the floor.

Power is the grease slide though a sticking point in a lift and the momentum to execute a throw. "A body in motion tend to stay in motion'.

Throws area all about Power. Trying to grind out a throw is productive.

My Personal Experience

I spent a couple of of years doing Judo. Due to the fact that I was a Powerlifter, my strength level and power was greater than the majority.

I was able to over power most of the Brown Belts and make one Black Belts life miserable on the mat.

One of the most important thing that I learned was how to use my opponents energy to assist me.

If they pushed forward, I pulled back, they essentially assisted me in something like a hip throw.

If they pulled me back, I pushed them forward, executing a foot sweep.

"Technique is everything"
Dr Tom McLaughlin, PhD Exercise Biomechanics

Yes, skill/technique is important to Judo, for all sports.

However, Power and Strength are vital components. To reiterate, my success on the mat with high ranked Belt was due to the fact that I could overpower the.

I'm a complete amateur when it comes to exercise science.Post 82
Your Post Illustrate That

Your post often contain misinformation due to your lack of knowledge, amateur status.

As I have suggested numerous time, you need to invest some time in reading research data. Doing so, will enable you to write training programs specific to your need or someone else.

The research data and anecdotal data is easy accessible, there is a plethora of great information, especially with the StrongFirst articles by Al Caimpa, Craig Marker and others.

The good news is that you can move from up from an amateur status, should you decide to do so.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
We've drifted pretty far away from the PTTP aspect of this thread, but since we are there anyways, I'll pose this question. Is there a point where strength and power can mask poor skill development?
 

Bret S.

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
We've drifted pretty far away from the PTTP aspect of this thread, but since we are there anyways, I'll pose this question. Is there a point where strength and power can mask poor skill development?
Probably, but only up to a certain skill level. At some point the strength advantage loses its value.
In karate nobody walks in off the street and does it, judo is also a 'skill' endeavor, maybe superior power will take you into a higher class of competition as it did for Kenny with his power background, but that only goes so far.
The higher skilled, higher rank martial artist will have a skill advantage that pure strength can't overcome.
In other words a power man like an Olympic lifter isn't going to beat a judoka in olympic level judo competition just because he is more powerful. Same as a strong judoka can't beat an olympic lifter at his game.

In climbing I may be able to hang for 10 minutes, do 100 consecutive strict pullups and crush walnuts in my bare hands.. how far will this take me up the mountain if I have no real climbing skills?
 

J Way

Level 1 Valued Member
You’ve mentioned the new 5/3/2 format. Two questions: 1) What’s the reason for the extra set? 2) Does training frequency stay the same?

It's a great program. Try any and all of the variations on cycling you find. A newer variant is 5-3-2 reps but with the same weight.

Cardio - as much or as little as you wish. I would save it for off days and/or for after the heavy lifting is done.

Upper back work? Sure.

I wouldn't alternate between 2-weeks blocks of anything until you feel like your progress has stalled or is getting very difficult on the basic plan.

-S-
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Probably, but only up to a certain skill level. At some point the strength advantage loses its value.
In karate nobody walks in off the street and does it, judo is also a 'skill' endeavor, maybe superior power will take you into a higher class of competition as it did for Kenny with his power background, but that only goes so far.
The higher skilled, higher rank martial artist will have a skill advantage that pure strength can't overcome.
In other words a power man like an Olympic lifter isn't going to beat a judoka in olympic level judo competition just because he is more powerful. Same as a strong judoka can't beat an olympic lifter at his game.

In climbing I may be able to hang for 10 minutes, do 100 consecutive strict pullups and crush walnuts in my bare hands.. how far will this take me up the mountain if I have no real climbing skills?
I concur
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Is there a point where strength and power can mask poor skill development?
Absolutely

Individual with a great deal of Power and Strength can dominate an individual with poor skills.

My Strength and Power enabled me to be competitive with individual with Brown Belts or lower with more skill and better technique than mine.

With that said, an individual with great technique and comparable Power and Strength will dominate their opponent. That is a fact and it also based on my personal experience.

All but one of the Black Belts that I spared with had comparable Power and Strength. That combined with their great skilled technique meant that it took a couple of minute or a few seconds before I tapped out.

Bret Post 77: "A good martial artist is lazy in the sense of not wanting to waste energy, only applying enough power to get the job done, over and over..."

In plain English, "Why work any harder that you need to, to get the job done". That is the underlying reason for being a great skilled technician.

One of my buddies that I spared with wasn't as strong as I was. I was able quickly and easily take him down on his back. However, he was a great skilled technician and patient.

He exerted little effort on his back; wearing me down.

He use my energy against me; holding my arm and spinning on his back like a turtle. Eventually, he'd get an arm bar and it was all over.

Great skilled technician, even with a little less Power and Strength, can dominate, providing they are patient and play to their technical skill strength.

"Technique is Everything." McLaughlin

Dr Tom McLaughlin wrote a great series Powerlifting article on Biomechanics and the optimal method necessary to increase the Powerlifts.

A Powerlifiters technical skills are fairly simple comparative to the Olympic Lifts, Gymnastics, etc.

Hoever, even the Powerlifter. "Technique is everything".

Powerlifter and COG, Center of Gravity

One of the keys to lifting more weight is the skill of keeping the bar as close to your Center of Gravity as possible. That is one of the reason that Conventional Deadlifters inadvertently are able to pull greater loads with some Upper Back Rounding; it allows the bar to remain closest to your Center of Gravity.

Research (McLaughlin) demonstrated that one of Jon Kuc's Deadlift attempts with 800 lbs, circa 1980, ended up getting two inches out in front of him.

McLaughlin determined the Torque produce by allowing the bar to drive out that far away from Kuc, meant the bar weight was magnified to around 1600 lbs.

Kuc obviously was strong enough (who is) to produce 1600 lbs of force to pull the weight up.

Kuc later went on to pull a World Record Deadlift at 242 lbs of 870 lbs.

Take Home Message

1) "Technique is Everything"

No matter the sport.

2) Power

As per Dr Fred Hatfield, "In the world of sports, Power is the King; Strength is the Queen".

3) A great technician with an enormous amount of Power and Strength is going to dominate his/her opponent.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
You’ve mentioned the new 5/3/2 format. Two questions: 1) What’s the reason for the extra set? 2) Does training frequency stay the same?
I have not seen it, but have heard, through reports here on the forum, that the Russian language version of PTTP, which is newer than the US version, recommends three sets with the same weight, 5-3-2, rather than two sets of 5 and using less weight for the second set.

-S-
 

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
I have not seen it, but have heard, through reports here on the forum, that the Russian language version of PTTP, which is newer than the US version, recommends three sets with the same weight, 5-3-2, rather than two sets of 5 and using less weight for the second set.

-S-
@J Way

Here is a quote from Pavel from another forum that I bookmarked:
Pavel Tsatsouline said:
Comrades, the purpose of the second, lighter, set of 5 was extra volume and technique practice. Com. Jack Reape suggested to me that leaving the weight the same but doing a triple and a double would accomplish the same with less hassle and without reducing the average intensity. It turned out that he was right and I made that change in the Russian edition of PTP.
Frequency stays the same.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Regarding technique versus strength, when it comes to ground wrestling like BJJ style or judo newaza, my superior strength tends to carry the day with nearly everyone I workout with whether BJJ or judo friends, and I'll readily admit I don't have the level of skill of quite a number of the folks I work out with, and many of these are actually quite strong too. This major transformation happened after getting competent at S&S as of a few years ago.

Regarding the standup part of judo (which is not much a part of BJJ however) my progress has happened along with my advance in skill through my excellent coach. I did not progress according to my advances in power nor strength, as far as I can tell. Judo in its standup phase is to such a high degree a game of positioning and balance that while strength and power are definitely important, large differentials in strength and power are overcome by moderate differentials in skill. I see this all the time. The toughest one against me of the approximately 60 guys that I work out with in a given year is only 2/3 my weight. He is so darn mobile and knows his stuff! However, I know two guys that rarely train judo and are not very skilled either, and both can deadlift around 600lbs. I find we're about equal in standup wrestling but on the ground I'm 100% on the defensive. Their advantageous strength differential definitely plays a big role!

Of course, this kind of doesn't matter, since if we're talking about physical training to improve at judo, clearly power training and endurance training are going to be very important. So, even if one can't rely on kettlebell swing training to win a match, swings are probably one of the best uses of off mat training time! That's no doubt! ... or Olympic lifts etc... I really do think that deadlifts are also very helpful as are TGUs. Maybe the key factor is anything that uses the whole body together in unison. I once posted that I wasn't too happy with chinups and dips for judo, and got in some trouble for saying so, and actually I did well back when those were all I did, but something feels different about their kind of strength, and I think this is because they are limited to using the upper body independently of the lower body, so the whole body can't function altogether as a producer of either strength or power.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Common Sense

Everyone understands there is a difference between moving lifting a weight and moving someone around in Judo.. This is common sense; there nothing about it that turns common sense upside down.



It Not As Unimportant As You Believe.

Being a good technician in Judo, any sport, the primary.

Power and Strength are secondary vital components; more so that you realize.



Fill In The Blank

All sports require time to learn. More technical sports are "hard to learn and takes many years of intelligent, skillful training." Thus, Judo is not unique when it come to learning.

Thus, "Real Olympic Lifting is terribly hard to learn...", "Real Gymnastic is terribly hard to learn"...the list is endless.

Kuzushi/"Unbalancing The Opponent

A large part of Judo throws is Kuzushi, getting your opponent off balance and redirecting their energy to assistance you in throwing them.

It also about using their energy to assist you in the a throw.

As an example...



In pushing you back, your opponent is also going to be off balance. Rather than falling on your back, use some common sense.

Rather than resist his forward force, add to it. As he, pushes forward, pull him back into a throw. You want to harness and use their energy against them. Allow our opponent to assist you. That's just common sense.

Judo requires a lot of "Pulling Power and Strength". Thus, Power and Strength Training need to focus to a greater degree on Pulling Movements.

Power

Power is vital to Judo throws, more so than you appear to realize. Power allows you to hammer you opponent into the floor.

Power is the grease slide though a sticking point in a lift and the momentum to execute a throw. "A body in motion tend to stay in motion'.

Throws area all about Power. Trying to grind out a throw is productive.

My Personal Experience

I spent a couple of of years doing Judo. Due to the fact that I was a Powerlifter, my strength level and power was greater than the majority.

I was able to over power most of the Brown Belts and make one Black Belts life miserable on the mat.

One of the most important thing that I learned was how to use my opponents energy to assist me.

If they pushed forward, I pulled back, they essentially assisted me in something like a hip throw.

If they pulled me back, I pushed them forward, executing a foot sweep.

"Technique is everything"
Dr Tom McLaughlin, PhD Exercise Biomechanics

Yes, skill/technique is important to Judo, for all sports.

However, Power and Strength are vital components. To reiterate, my success on the mat with high ranked Belt was due to the fact that I could overpower the.



Your Post Illustrate That

Your post often contain misinformation due to your lack of knowledge, amateur status.

As I have suggested numerous time, you need to invest some time in reading research data. Doing so, will enable you to write training programs specific to your need or someone else.

The research data and anecdotal data is easy accessible, there is a plethora of great information, especially with the StrongFirst articles by Al Caimpa, Craig Marker and others.

The good news is that you can move from up from an amateur status, should you decide to do so.

Kenny Croxdale
All good stuff here. I'll add though that I can't accept that all sports are equally technical, or even when they are roughly equally technical that the importance of technique versus athleticism will remain equal. (I'm not suggesting that this is what you mean, however. This is just an added thought.) Judo for instance has a ridiculous number of effective techniques and positions. Fencing, much less. Fencing just isn't as technical or should I write "as complex" a sport as is judo. I don't at all think this makes judo a better sport, in fact it probably makes it a worse sport as it's too hard to get truly good at for an amateur. I've spent many years at fencing also (mainly the Japanese variety called Kendo) and while getting good at it, as at any sport, is very difficult, if we're talking about the actual movements needed to be learnt and refined, we're talking about way less of them. Still, very hard stuff though!

Regarding amateur versus expert, this is also a big controversy in judo and probably in any sport. My own take on it is that amateurs like me benefit from the knowledge and experience of experts/professionals whether this is judo or lifting weights or anything at all. But at the end of the day, recreational players, which is probably over 99% of players, make up the bulk of those who practice the sport. Our needs and goals are different from experts or professionals. They aren't just less, but quite different overall. This means that there is a disconnect between the two groups. Maybe I'll start a new thread on this.
 
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Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Common Sense

Everyone understands there is a difference between moving lifting a weight and moving someone around in Judo.. This is common sense; there nothing about it that turns common sense upside down.



It Not As Unimportant As You Believe.

Being a good technician in Judo, any sport, the primary.

Power and Strength are secondary vital components; more so that you realize.



Fill In The Blank

All sports require time to learn. More technical sports are "hard to learn and takes many years of intelligent, skillful training." Thus, Judo is not unique when it come to learning.

Thus, "Real Olympic Lifting is terribly hard to learn...", "Real Gymnastic is terribly hard to learn"...the list is endless.

Kuzushi/"Unbalancing The Opponent

A large part of Judo throws is Kuzushi, getting your opponent off balance and redirecting their energy to assistance you in throwing them.

It also about using their energy to assist you in the a throw.

As an example...



In pushing you back, your opponent is also going to be off balance. Rather than falling on your back, use some common sense.

Rather than resist his forward force, add to it. As he, pushes forward, pull him back into a throw. You want to harness and use their energy against them. Allow our opponent to assist you. That's just common sense.

Judo requires a lot of "Pulling Power and Strength". Thus, Power and Strength Training need to focus to a greater degree on Pulling Movements.

Power

Power is vital to Judo throws, more so than you appear to realize. Power allows you to hammer you opponent into the floor.

Power is the grease slide though a sticking point in a lift and the momentum to execute a throw. "A body in motion tend to stay in motion'.

Throws area all about Power. Trying to grind out a throw is productive.

My Personal Experience

I spent a couple of of years doing Judo. Due to the fact that I was a Powerlifter, my strength level and power was greater than the majority.

I was able to over power most of the Brown Belts and make one Black Belts life miserable on the mat.

One of the most important thing that I learned was how to use my opponents energy to assist me.

If they pushed forward, I pulled back, they essentially assisted me in something like a hip throw.

If they pulled me back, I pushed them forward, executing a foot sweep.

"Technique is everything"
Dr Tom McLaughlin, PhD Exercise Biomechanics

Yes, skill/technique is important to Judo, for all sports.

However, Power and Strength are vital components. To reiterate, my success on the mat with high ranked Belt was due to the fact that I could overpower the.



Your Post Illustrate That

Your post often contain misinformation due to your lack of knowledge, amateur status.

As I have suggested numerous time, you need to invest some time in reading research data. Doing so, will enable you to write training programs specific to your need or someone else.

The research data and anecdotal data is easy accessible, there is a plethora of great information, especially with the StrongFirst articles by Al Caimpa, Craig Marker and others.

The good news is that you can move from up from an amateur status, should you decide to do so.

Kenny Croxdale
Okay, I've thought about this all a little bit. I wasn't explaining myself well. What I'm trying to say I suppose is that the kind of power involved in judo techniques is developed through movements and postures very particular to those techniques. Some moves have crossover to some degree with standard kettlebell swings and other moves like Olympic lifts, but the actual postures used in judo are so different from these that while to be sure swings etc will help build a well-rounded physique for the sport, you have to train power for the exact throws themselves. (Again, I'm not suggesting you don't know this, but I'm writing more to clarify what I didn't express well before.) I don't know if you're familiar with the very high scoring throw uchimata, but the actual movement and postures you have to take for it are really weird and twisty, and while there are parts of them that coincide with standard kettlebell movements, other parts don't at all - you'd hurt yourself trying to twist around with a weight, or at any rate not get anything from it - the move needs a human body there to practice on.

And I think this boils down what the disconnect between any kind of power training and complicated movement sports like judo is: it's hard to approximate judo moves with weights or with anything other than a human being as your "weight".

So, let's take the S&S moves as a litmus test. What do they give me for judo? I can yank someone one handed very strongly and powerfully from the swings, and I can resist a good deal of weight with one arm through the TGUs. These are very helpful for judo and thank you S&S! These strength and power skills come into play in judo, and are very helpful and important. However, they cover only a fraction of the movement patterns needed for power development in the sport. This is probably why, to my knowledge, the best judoka in history spent the vast majority of their training time on the mats with human beings. My coach seems to my understanding of what he says to see weights as being very much an accessory or bonus attribute, not as being integral to the sport whatsoever. Useful, yes, but not key. Quite a few of us at the club are lifters of various stripes and he contrasts their lifting strength with the different needs of judo.

In any case, of course power generation is a big part of any sport especially judo, but I think weights can only fill in a part of that kind of power generation training since the movements and postures are different. Still worth doing for many reasons, of course.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Individual with a great deal of Power and Strength can dominate an individual with poor skills.
Agreed totally. I have seen this many times.
Maybe I didn't articulate well enough. My comment was more aimed to people (mostly beginners) engaging in a skill sport where they can succeed to a point based on their strength and power alone, and because of that they don't learn the vital techniques and skills required for high level performance. They might in fact have a hard time un-learning poorly patterned skills.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Agreed totally. I have seen this many times.
Maybe I didn't articulate well enough. My comment was more aimed to people (mostly beginners) engaging in a skill sport where they can succeed to a point based on their strength and power alone, and because of that they don't learn the vital techniques and skills required for high level performance. They might in fact have a hard time un-learning poorly patterned skills.
I'll add that sport specific power is often quite different from weight lifting power, however. I've also experienced this a lot. I have quite a lot of sport specific judo power which overcomes weight lifting power. I've experienced this all through my judo career. Other than some guys who were absolute monsters, their lifting strength was not sport-specific for judo like my judo strength was. I also know literally pro judo athletes whose sport specific strength and power are way beyond mine and this goes for guys only 2/3 my weight. I know for a fact that one of them does not lift weights at all, and he is two time world cup champion!

Weight lifting movements are simply different from the movements involved in a lot of sports. I'd even wonder if they build the wrong kind of bulk - like why carry around heavy muscle in places you don't need it for the sport (if you're a serious athlete)?

This all sort of goes back to my amateur vs pro discussion. I'm doing S&S because I like S&S and what it does for me. I'm not a pro at judo, so my weight training is not specifically to bolster it. My weight training is its own thing. How I balance this with my judo is one of the problems I face as a recreational athlete.

Oh yeah, as an aside, I found out recently that a brown belt at our club started doing S&S a few months ago. He found out about the program on his own - it wasn't me who introduced him to it. So, I'm getting a chance to see what the program does for someone besides myself as a judoka. No doubt it fills in some big power and strength gaps, no doubt! Not all nor most of them, however, I think.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
Agreed totally. I have seen this many times.
Maybe I didn't articulate well enough. My comment was more aimed to people (mostly beginners) engaging in a skill sport where they can succeed to a point based on their strength and power alone, and because of that they don't learn the vital techniques and skills required for high level performance. They might in fact have a hard time un-learning poorly patterned skills.
Agreed.

Unlearning Something

The problem with unlearning something is that you initially lose ground. That is one of the main reason most don't do and quit before they unlearned it and learned to do it right.

In working with someone, I guarantee that they are going to lose ground. It amount to one step backward, followed by two steps forward; providing the stick with learning it right.

Another complaint in learning to do it right is, "It does't feel right".

My answer to that is, "Keep doing it until is does feel right".

Kenny Croxdale
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
Agreed.

Unlearning Something

The problem with unlearning something is that you initially lose ground. That is one of the main reason most don't do and quit before they unlearned it and learned to do it right.

In working with someone, I guarantee that they are going to lose ground. It amount to one step backward, followed by two steps forward; providing the stick with learning it right.

Another complaint in learning to do it right is, "It does't feel right".

My answer to that is, "Keep doing it until is does feel right".

Kenny Croxdale
I've been feeling this a lot with both my judo and Korean language studies in the past few years. I have been doing so many things wrong that what feels right, is wrong.
 

Kozushi

Level 7 Valued Member
I talked with my coach about weight lifting and judo and what his opinion is, is that it's 100% about power recruitment, and that the high pull is the best one, and frankly the only one he felt was worthwhile, in his case about 230lbs on a barbell. His personal version of the high pull was the hanging clean. He doesn't think one armed lifts are good as they teach you to torque the spine which can be dangerous and they are weaker movements. Power and strength endurance are what count, not slow strength. Also, while high pulls do make a big difference because the movement is used all the time in judo, most judo throws and other moves can't be replicated with weights, and there is no point trying to. My coach is an expert, I'm an amateur. These are his opinions, which hold weight, as an expert.

One reason I seem to "Be all over the place" as two have put it to me in the past few years on these forums, is that I'm trying to balance judo with SF principle weight training. Both are quite demanding, but for me giving up one for the other is not a happy thought. This is why you'll see me often trying out different things. In any case I"m loyal to S&S, so I'm not really "all over the place". My add on moves are "all over the place" perhaps, but not my core programs of judo and S&S.
 
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