Quick and Dead

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
That's precisely what happen everyday to most people when using their technology gadgets. As far as they are concerned, tv sets, cell phones, planes and satellites "magically" work.



I get where you're coming from and I'm the same. But most people wouldn't give a damn and they still make progress when following ANY program.

Over-analyzing things is a common trait we share. And trying to constantly improve any program we lay our eyes on is too.

That's why, quite frequently, we make slower progress instead just trusting the program and do the work.

Having your appendix removed is way more dangerous than following blindly S&S. And yet, most people won't try to tell the surgeon how to do his work.

And I say this being the guy who is always trying to understand everything I come across (and subconsciously trying to find gaps).



I agree.

That's why, after having dissected and analized dozens of Dan John's programs, I trust him implicitly.

But I still experience the urge to know the why.



Most professional athletes don't know the whys and, still, the perform superbly.

Knowing the whys is always better. Always.

But that doesn't mean you will follow the program as is it, thus reaping the full benefits.

I still think we are saying the same thing... but the wording we use is a bit different.
I had a big discussion similar to this on another thread where it was about whether to "shut up and follow" or to ask lots of questions of your coach. The devil is likely in the details for these kinds of debates. The "it depends on the exact situation" response is likely most correct here.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
This "tale" is corny as hell.
I thought it was a good tale. Cats are mammals like us and so the idea is an all out effort needed to make the kill, which is a short burst. Interesting. I find short bursts are important to actually win in judo. Back when I did MMA for a while the matches seemed like a lot of punching each other in the head, hehehe. More of an endurance event.
 

ali

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
And a moment of trivia - I haven't read the book clearly so dunno if this is mentioned -

quick actually is an olde worde meaning alive.

The quick and the dead is a King James Bible quote....the alive and the dead.

Specifically it warns that those who sin, both the quick and the dead, will be judged by Jesus Christ.

....so be careful with any criticism!!
 

WhatWouldHulkDo

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
A consideration: the appearance of a new book does not mean that its time to change your training. StrongFirst didn't expect everybody to drop what they were doing and start barbell training when they released Reload. No respectable training materials start off with "stop what you're doing right now and do this instead."

They are building a road. You're still responsible for figuring out where you're going.
 

Steve W.

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
And a moment of trivia - I haven't read the book clearly so dunno if this is mentioned -

quick actually is an olde worde meaning alive.

The quick and the dead is a King James Bible quote....the alive and the dead.

Specifically it warns that those who sin, both the quick and the dead, will be judged by Jesus Christ.

....so be careful with any criticism!!
The article linked to by @Maine-ah KB earlier in this thread discusses the origin of the phrase:

“Masters of Life and Death” —An Excerpt from The Quick and the Dead | StrongFirst and this just came out. Its a good read and gets into the science of why in Q&D.
 

Oscar

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I was always a bit suprised by how cheap Pavel's books are. I trained for 2 years having spent 10 dollars on S&S. And I'm saying this from a country where dollars are are more scarce than dinosaurs.

This is an strange thread. We all know the book is about swings and push ups and have some good content on the science behind it. There is not much more to it.
 

Tirofijo

More than 500 posts
The following comment by Geoff's review of Q&D on Amazon caught me off guard... does this make sense to anyone else? He wrote:



I can understand how a beginner could accumulate "newbie" gains at the start of a program but if this routine is really for more advanced practioners, I find it hard to think believe OA swings and push-ups would cause such an increase in muscle mass.

But I'm no expert, so I'm genuinely curious what others think of that statement.
Geoff has been over the top in his own marketing in the past. I'll believe a pound of muscle in a week when I see it from someone that's not part of the family (or at least not prone to marketing hype.)

Could someone somewhere have put in a pound of muscle? I guess. But it could also be atypical results.
 

ali

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
I trained for 2 years having spent 10 dollars on S&S.
Yup, S&S the book, the programme, the details.....priceless, really.
Gave me back the athlete in me.
In our time of biohacking wellness extremism where people are spending thousands of dollars on all sorts of expensive bollocks and doing weird s*it to themselves on top of all the placebo supplements that work best the more expensive they are, a single book for a tenner can turn you into an athlete. Do the thing, eat and sleep. A pretty good investment....I couldn't care less about AK47s but the content with some added comedy is the sale for me. For a tenner?
The healthy discourse and deep investigations into the theoretical framework of the hows and whys far, far outstrip anything else connected with the sales and marketing....although I can see frustrations, doubts and annoyances are valid concerns for others. Not me.
I'll get the book when it is out in all probability but I'm in no rush in pursuing the programme and more interested in the theory and rationale behind it all at the moment.
S&S gave me back my sprinting ability.
Speed gains are hard to come by as age creeps up. S&S gave me that.
I have total confidence that the programme will do what it sets out to do. I don't need to care or bother about any promotional material ....but realise, of course, it is there as part of a sales narrative and that's fine. From another author I would be skeptical....and that's a good thing and wouldn't want to discourage skepticism in a market place which absolutely demands skepticism and scrutiny. The title will achieve what it sets out...to make the user less dead. Biohackers will pay a lot for that.....a book that is cheaper than a cup of bulletproof coffee, a mug of mushroom tea or a spirulina longevity shake made from organic camel's placenta and more effing coconut.
It'll be worth it.
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
I'll paraphrase from the book - in discussing two different protocols, Pavel says that both versions yielded similar, and excellent, performance results, and that one quickly built muscle, including some people putting on 10 lbs. Those same people then lost the new mass when they switched to the other protocol but without any loss of power or endurance.
That's interesting, especially the part where one protocol caused a loss of mass. Makes me wonder what would have happened if they hadn't gained the initial 10 lbs.

Either way, I'm definitely interested.
 

SuperGirevik

More than 300 posts
Geoff has been over the top in his own marketing in the past. I'll believe a pound of muscle in a week when I see it from someone that's not part of the family (or at least not prone to marketing hype.)

Could someone somewhere have put in a pound of muscle? I guess. But it could also be atypical results.
I'm skeptical as well but I'll hold back any judgement until after reading the book.
 

Steve Freides

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Senior Certified Instructor
That's interesting, especially the part where one protocol caused a loss of mass. Makes me wonder what would have happened if they hadn't gained the initial 10 lbs.

Either way, I'm definitely interested.
As I read it, people only on the second protocol didn't lose mass, only those who had gained on the first one.

In either case, try both and see what works for you. Because Q&D can be tweaked, much like S&S, to be something you do with other things or a thing by itself, that volume will be determinant as well.

-S-
 

LightningFast

Double-Digit Post Count
If Amazon has physical book in stock they ship it straight away - why wouldn't they? 1 to 2 months shipping time is typical for books that are not published in the traditional way, but are printed though vanity presses - on as needed basis, - and I suspect this is what's happening here. Also, "some" publishers (I am not saying this is the case with Q&D) finance their products via crowd funding. Get a bunch of potential buyers interested, announce the release date, make them pay. Accumulate enough orders to get maximum discount at the vanity press, get them to print and post. This way capital outlay is zero. Smart business practice, irritating for the consumer.

In regards to Kindle edition. It usually takes less than a week to get the electronic book ready for sale. Again, I am in absolutely no way saying Strong First would ever do anything like this, but it makes sense to milk out paper and only then make electronic copy available. Electronic copy is easy to pirate and can be returned with no cost if you consider the info not worthwhile.
 
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LightningFast

Double-Digit Post Count
The following comment by Geoff's review of Q&D on Amazon caught me off guard... does this make sense to anyone else? He wrote:



I can understand how a beginner could accumulate "newbie" gains at the start of a program but if this routine is really for more advanced practioners, I find it hard to think believe OA swings and push-ups would cause such an increase in muscle mass.

But I'm no expert, so I'm genuinely curious what others think of that statement.
Not to forget telomere lengthening... How many times have you seen genuine reviews of free pre-release copies?
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
And a moment of trivia - I haven't read the book clearly so dunno if this is mentioned -

quick actually is an olde worde meaning alive.

The quick and the dead is a King James Bible quote....the alive and the dead.

Specifically it warns that those who sin, both the quick and the dead, will be judged by Jesus Christ.

....so be careful with any criticism!!
Yes, but titles are often witty double-speak. I expect quick here to mean both alive like the cat that lived, but also the speed at which the exercises are supposed to be performed. I'll assume the word has two meanings, and longevity is a word that was used at least once in the excerpt posted on this site. I'm sure quick meaning alive is also pertinent to the program, although it ought to be for most exercise programs including S&S of course.
 

Kozushi

More than 2500 posts
A consideration: the appearance of a new book does not mean that its time to change your training. StrongFirst didn't expect everybody to drop what they were doing and start barbell training when they released Reload. No respectable training materials start off with "stop what you're doing right now and do this instead."

They are building a road. You're still responsible for figuring out where you're going.
Absolutely. I'm not just after GPP for instance. I started with this just wanting to "get stronger" not even knowing where that would take me, and now with 3 years of S&S behind me I am able to branch into things I thought never possible before.

I have to say though that Naked Warrior is way harder than S&S, at least for me! I was good at the pushups a few years ago and even managed a few pistols a day back then, but now that I'm getting back into bodyweight more seriously, yikes! There is also other stuff that has some important connection to judo movements and strength systems that I've found helpful that I do. But I'm still working with the principles of S&S, hard maximum tension being one of them of course.
 

ali

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Well I wasn't intending to buy it yet but as I'm in the UK it seems it'll take a while so may as well get the order in.
That's quite cute really, like the old days, when you didn't get what you wanted immediately. It's ok, I'll cope, thank you for asking.
 

Pantrolyx

Triple-Digit Post Count
I've ordered the book, as the (cryptical) desciption looks very interesting indeed.
Maybe I will make it a part of my preparation for my next (and last) MMA-bout.
 
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