Rdella Podcast - Strength Training Over 40

Karl

Level 6 Valued Member
I was wondering others thoughts on this episode:

Strength Training Over 40 (10 Key Tactics And Considerations) - Rdella Training : Strength Training | Functional Exercise | Kettlebells | Fitness

I have never been much of a supplement guy, I do take magnesium and vit D3. I have never thought to take a protein supplement. Have those of you over 40 found this to be necessary ? For the most part I would rather eat food that is pretty close to its natural form, but if a powdered supplement would help retain strength as I age I will do so. Looking at my 75 year old father, who was a beast of a blue collar man, is now very frail looking. Granted he work until 70 then just took up the rocking chair.
 

LukeV

Level 6 Valued Member
It's early days for me as I'm just about to turn 49. I do mindfully consume quality protein with BCAAs post workout (13g) and a semi-regular large protein shake (I use 50g casein). I can say with confidence that this assists recovery. I am less sore and feel recovered quicker with the supplementation. I know this because I really notice it when I don't take it such as when I am away for work or on holidays. Apart from that I haven't noticed any age-related muscle or strength loss but maybe I'm too young for that anyway
 

kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
I have never thought to take a protein supplement. Have those of you over 40 found this to be necessary ? For the most part I would rather eat food that is pretty close to its natural form, but if a powdered supplement would help retain strength as I age I will do so.
Aging and Protein

The older you get, the more protein you need. That due to the fact that older individuals don't process protein as well as younger individuals. Thus, more protein is needed for older individuals to achieve the same results as younger individuals.

The Amount of Protein Required

Age is one of the primary factors in determining how much protein you need per serving/meal to maintain or increase muscle mass.

Younger individual need at least 25 gram of "Quality Protein" per serving/meal.

Older individual need approximately 38 gram of "Quality Protein per serving/meal.

The underlying reason for for these amount of protein per serving/meal has to do with...

mTOR, Mammalian Target of Rapamycin

Think of mTOR like a light switch; when turned on it triggers an anabolic (muscle building), hormonal cascade.

mTOR is turned on with a the...

Amino Acid, Leucine

Research (Drs Layne Norton and Donald Layman) found that it take around 2.5 gram of Leucine for younger individual and around 3 gram of Leucine for older individual to turn on mTOR, the anabolic trigger.

Amount of Leucine In Proteins

The "Quality Proteins" that are highest in Leucine are...

1) Whey Protein: Between 10 -12% is Leucine.

a) Younger individual consuming 25 grams of Whey would obtain about 2.5 gram of Leucine.

b) Older individual consuming 30 gram of Whey would obtain about 3 gram of Leucine.

That is one of the reasons that Whey is touted as, "The Anabolic Protein".

Whey Protein also enters your system faster; in 20 to 60 minutes dependent on which Whey Protein that you take. There are several types.

2) Casein Protein: Around 8% is Leucine.

a) Younger individual would need to consume around 32 grams of Casein to obtain 2.5 grams of Leucine.

b) Older individual would need to consume around 38 gram of Casein to obtain 3 grams of Leucine.

Casein is defined as "The Anti-Catabolic Protein". It is a "Time Released Protein"; taking around 5 hours to digest.

While Casein builds muscle, whey is the better choice.

Vegan Proteins

Most are very low in Leucine. Thus, obtaining enough Leucine from plant based food alone is very difficult.

Real Foods

Meats, Cheese, Milk and Eggs: Around 8% is Leucine.

Thus, the above recommendation for Casein would apply.

Eating Natural Protein Foods

Consuming natural protein works, providing you consume enough protein.

Real Food Plus A Protein Supplement

If you aren't able to consume enough natural protein foods to obtain the right amount of Leucine, here are a couple of options...

1) Add a Protein Drink to your meal

2) Add a Leucine Supplement to your meal.

Leucine Research

Plant based protein are very low in Leucine.

Dr Layne Norton's research determined that adding the right amount of Leucine to Wheat Protein (any protein that doesn't contain enough Leucine) produced the same anabolic effect as with all protein sources high in Leucine.

Looking at my 75 year old father, who was a beast of a blue collar man, is now very frail looking. Granted he work until 70 then just took up the rocking chair.
Your Dad

One of the biggest problems with older individual is the loss of muscle mass, sarcopenia.

Two of the reasons for this are...

1) No physical activity/exercise.

Exercise triggers mTOR. So, some type or physical activity would definitely help, as you know.

2) Decreased appetite.

Not consuming enough calories.

3) Low Protein Intake.

Not consuming enough "Quality Protein" (Leucine) to maintain and/or increase muscle mass.

Pulse Feeding For Older Individuals

Research has determined older individual are better able to maintain muscle mass with Pulse Feeding. This means consuming fewer but larger meals, that a high in protein.

Pulse Feeding was effective for older individual but Pulse Feeding did produce the same results for younger individual.

Summary

1) Protein intake is age dependent.

2) Leucine is the anabolic trigger for maintaining/increasing muscle mass.

3) Pulse Feeding is an effective method for older individuals in maintaining/increasing muscle mass.

Kenny Croxdale
 

North Coast Miller

Level 7 Valued Member
I was wondering others thoughts on this episode:

Strength Training Over 40 (10 Key Tactics And Considerations) - Rdella Training : Strength Training | Functional Exercise | Kettlebells | Fitness

I have never been much of a supplement guy, I do take magnesium and vit D3. I have never thought to take a protein supplement. Have those of you over 40 found this to be necessary ? For the most part I would rather eat food that is pretty close to its natural form, but if a powdered supplement would help retain strength as I age I will do so. Looking at my 75 year old father, who was a beast of a blue collar man, is now very frail looking. Granted he work until 70 then just took up the rocking chair.
I'm going on 51 and have only recently begun to consistently use protein supplement. In the past I have always used it when trying to gain weight, or I've made my own gainer shake. It is difficult to get enough lean protein in a varied diet if trying to put weight on, the powder makes it easy.

I suspect as I get on into my 60s it will become increasingly important, as the old bulking protein levels will be the new maintenance ones, while my overall calories probably decrease.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
I have never thought to take a protein supplement. Have those of you over 40 found this to be necessary ?
I use whey isolate powder in 1% milk to help me get about 160g of protein per day. If I get the 160g from real food I don't need it or use it, but if my food intake that day won't get to the goal, the whey powder is an easy way to get there.

I keep forgetting the Vit D.... thanks for the reminder. My doc advises taking it once a week (fairly high dose). I used to take magnesium regularly but have stopped this past couple of months. Haven't noticed much difference. I used to take fish oil but have become convinced (for now, might change my mind) that it's not valuable, so I stopped that. Lots of conflicting information out there on that. I started taking creatine about 2 months ago. Not sure if it helps, but haven't had any negative effects, and strength training is going well.
 

kenaces

Level 6 Valued Member
@kennycro@@aol.com I though I had read that this need for more protein as we age wasn't much of an issue for those younger than 60? You have any data/research on this?

Thanks
 

Karl

Level 6 Valued Member
Thank you for the input everyone. I apologize for the delayed response, I was dispatch to a fire in western Oregon so been a little busy. I will try and read through all the comments when I’m back from the fire. Just didn’t want you guys to think I am a one and done non responder.

Kgk
 
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HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
What is meant by pulse feeding? Pulse feeding as in Iron Addicts/T Nations pulse feast where you have two to three shakes a day or can it be more of a Lean Gains 16/8 fasting schedule? Because there was the article by Mike Prevost where it says to have some protein every 3-5 hours about three times a day. I'm torn between the two methods and don't know which to choose. They both make sense and would fall in line with the 3-5 three times a day. But maybe the 16/8 would be better for the older crowd due to the supposed gh and testosterone benefits from fasting.
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
What is meant by pulse feeding?
There is plenty of online research information on what Pulse Feeding is.

I provide some basic information in my previous post...

Pulse Feeding For Older Individuals

Research has determined older individual are better able to maintain muscle mass with Pulse Feeding. This means consuming fewer but larger meals, that a high in protein.

Pulse Feeding was effective for older individual but Pulse Feeding did produce the same results for younger individual.

Because there was the article by Mike Prevost where it says to have some protein every 3-5 hours about three times a day. They both make sense and would fall in line with the 3-5 three times a day.
I like Mike's post and website. However, one of the issues with protein consumption timing has to do with...

Refractory Period

Dr Layne Norton's (PhD Nutrition, Pro Natural Body Builder, Powerlifter) research determined that consuming protein every 3 hours wasn't as effective as consuming it every 4 - 6 hours for Muscle Protein Synthesis. Muscle Protein Synthesis is a vital component for increasing muscle mass.

Thus, optimizing Muscle Protein Synthesis produces a greater anabolic effect.

Sponge Example

Muscles are somewhat like a sponge.

A sponge what is soaking weight cannot soak up any more water.

A dry sponge soaks up a lot of water.

The "Muscle Sponge"


In the case of Muscle Protein Synthesis, the "Muscle Sponge" isn't able absorb any more after consuming a meal or protein drink after three hours. It amount to trying to clean up a water spill on your kitchen counter with a fully soaked sponge. It is not going to work.

Muscle Protein Synthesis is "Time Sensitive", as it is with medication. Medication are prescribed to be taken only within certain time limits. That applies equally for optimal Muscle Protein Synthesis.

The Caveat

It appears taking Leucine or Branch Chain Amino Acids may be able to spike Muscle Protein Synthesis when taken approximately an hour and a half after a meal.

...maybe the 16/8 would be better for the older crowd due to the supposed gh and testosterone benefits from fasting.
16/8

That is one possibility.

However, while there increase in Growth Hormone and Testosterone, it is minuscule.

The benefits of Intermittent Fasting revolve around increasing Insulin Sensitivity and developing Metabolic Flexibility; the body's becoming more efficient at burning fat or glucose dependent on the activity.

Kenny Croxdale
 
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kennycro@@aol.com

Level 6 Valued Member
I started taking creatine about 2 months ago. Not sure if it helps,...
Non-Responder

Anna, it appears that you are a Creatine Non-Responder when it comes it helping you with you lifts. It never has worked for me, either.

However, there are some benefits to creatine.

One of the more interesting is in regard to...

Creatine keeps strength athlete's arteries supple

...Heavy weight training may make the arteries stiffer, ...strength athletes may therefore be more at risk of cardiovascular disease.

The research suggests that creatine has a broad positive cardiovascular effect on people who do resistance training. Stiffening of the arteries, which showed up immediately after doing a strength workout in other studies, is not seen at all in the creatine users in this study.

Kenny Croxdale
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I was wondering others thoughts on this episode:

Strength Training Over 40 (10 Key Tactics And Considerations) - Rdella Training : Strength Training | Functional Exercise | Kettlebells | Fitness

I have never been much of a supplement guy, I do take magnesium and vit D3. I have never thought to take a protein supplement. Have those of you over 40 found this to be necessary ? For the most part I would rather eat food that is pretty close to its natural form, but if a powdered supplement would help retain strength as I age I will do so. Looking at my 75 year old father, who was a beast of a blue collar man, is now very frail looking. Granted he work until 70 then just took up the rocking chair.
@Karl, if you'll forgive a skinny man offering his opinion on hypertrophy:

Think of it like a recipe. When you make a recipe in the kitchen, there are typically a number of ingredients. Follow the recipe and the results usually taste like they're supposed to. OTOH, start leaving out ingredients or substituting according to your own intuition, and you might get something good, and then again, you might not.

I've been bench pressing for the last couple of months, making sure I get enough to eat and enough sleep, and sure enough, I've got bigger upper body muscles than I did when I started. I'm 63 and don't eat a whole lot, but I've got a good feeling of when I'm eating to maintain or lose and when I'm eating to make sure I'm getting enough. IOW, I've found my version of the recipe - move a lot of heavy weight, eat enough, sleep enough - to get the results I wanted. (I didn't want to gain a lot of muscle and I didn't, but I did want to bench press more, and I am.) And for me, no powdered protein supplements. My "breakfast," whether gaining, losing, or maintaining, is usually a Dale's protein bar, which has about 20-25 grams of protein, along with a nice double espresso and a pile of heavy cream. And then dinner, which is maybe a burger or two.

Here at StrongFirst, the first order of business is building up to a decently high volume of decently heavy weight. I'm doing lots of reps at 80% 1RM, as but one example.

Hope this helps.

-S-
 

ali

Level 7 Valued Member
A really good podcast on the mechanism of creatine and its role in health.

Creatine: Far More Than a Performance Enhancer

.....I think I maybe in the non responder group. It's difficult to judge really....training goes well without it, training goes well with it. Training seems to be the constant.
Going to finish my bag of powder and not buy anymore product for a while.
 

Karl

Level 6 Valued Member
Thank you everyone for your input.

The more I learn the more I realise I need to listen to my own body. There is no diet scheme or rule that works for the full spectrum of stress for each individual in all cases. Like the rest of life you really need to figure out on your own. Just like leading people, listening to your body may give the answers faster than implementing a playbook for another person.

I am going to try a high quality protein powder, jocko molk, and give it a n=1 qualitative analysis. Doubt I would use it in the winter when I have full control of my diet, but during fire season it might help.
 
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