Kettlebell Reducing weight mid-block

[Tom Flint]

I’ve been running Return of the Kettlebell for seven weeks and I’m loving it, but because of my impatience to get going, I started it without being lean enough (for my satisfaction) to use it as a bulking program. As a consequence, the 32s are taking it out me in a caloric deficit as they’re right on a hard 6RM for the double MP.

I’m about to be limited to 24s (my 14RM) for a few weeks for work (hotel has a very well-stocked gym) so I was thinking I was stuck with changing programs, aiming for fat loss/conditioning instead.

However, I’ve realised today that this limitation my be a blessing in disguise. With Pavel’s recommendation of a 5-15RM, I can turn RoTK into a lighter, lower stress experience on a deficit, shorten the rests, get some fat loss and improved conditioning, all within the published parameters, and I can avoid doing that thing I swore long ago that I’d never do again: program hop.

Once I’m lean enough, I can push it a little more with food and intensity, and stick with RoTK for the long haul as planned.

How do you all approach these dilemmas if and when they pop up for you? Do you ever find yourself changing tack mid-program because you’ve misjudged an element in your psychology or your physical capacity?

 

[MikeL]

Intelligent adjustment of a workout/programme based on how your body feels and so taking a template and making it individualised?
Yep, sounds good to me.

 

[Bauer]

How do you all approach these dilemmas if and when they pop up for you? Do you ever find yourself changing tack mid-program because you’ve misjudged an element in your psychology or your physical capacity?

Yes, I do.

During my recent run of ROP I got sick + went through a weight loss phase. Being lighter and recovering from my illness (maybe Covid) I had to track back about 6 weeks. Thus, I didn't reduce the weight, but the ladders and volume, from 4x5 ladders to about 3x4 ladders. When I got back to ladders of 5 I actually felt that my form had improved and that my joints felt especially good.

In the past I have sometimes repeated easier weeks until I felt strong again - especially when dealing with colds, etc.

 

[3letterslong]

If something isn't going right, I always fall back to the basics.

If I decide to cut, I'll switch to a more Pavel-based program (like Naked Warrior + pull-ups or the Strongfirst bodyweight program + swings). The is probably program hopping, but it doesn't bother me because I'm sticking to the same movements.

If stress and physical fatigue are the culprit, I fall back to Convict Conditioning + swings.

 

[Ege]

I’ve been running Return of the Kettlebell for seven weeks and I’m loving it, but because of my impatience to get going, I started it without being lean enough (for my satisfaction) to use it as a bulking program. As a consequence, the 32s are taking it out me in a caloric deficit as they’re right on a hard 6RM for the double MP.

I’m about to be limited to 24s (my 14RM) for a few weeks for work (hotel has a very well-stocked gym) so I was thinking I was stuck with changing programs, aiming for fat loss/conditioning instead.

However, I’ve realised today that this limitation my be a blessing in disguise. With Pavel’s recommendation of a 5-15RM, I can turn RoTK into a lighter, lower stress experience on a deficit, shorten the rests, get some fat loss and improved conditioning, all within the published parameters, and I can avoid doing that thing I swore long ago that I’d never do again: program hop.

Once I’m lean enough, I can push it a little more with food and intensity, and stick with RoTK for the long haul as planned.

How do you all approach these dilemmas if and when they pop up for you? Do you ever find yourself changing tack mid-program because you’ve misjudged an element in your psychology or your physical capacity?

I would echo all other replies in this post. You are relatively quite experienced and such a call from your side would be the best. A novice could trick her/himself in such a situation and on top for a novice, strength (in my case) increase in calorie deficit is doable, but in more experienced people it’s almost impossible.

 

[Tom Flint]

Intelligent adjustment of a workout/programme based on how your body feels and so taking a template and making it individualised?
Yep, sounds good to me.

Yep I think you’ve nailed it much more succinctly than I did with my rambling.

Sometimes a program will be presented in a certain light, or romanticised in conjunction with a singular aim, and it makes it feel like ‘misusing’ the program to adjust it to suit one’s needs - which is of course ridiculous.

RoTK in particular has a mystique about it; this idea that it’s only for kettlebell ninjas with unlimited recovery capacity obscures the fact that - like any program - it can accommodate limitations and divergent goals. It’s not cheating to adjust to the winds of the day if it’s still serving your purpose.

 

[Kev]

I had to drop from 2x20kg to 2x16kg 3 weeks into the shoulder smoker. I can press a 40kg and double 32kg but as a complex those 2x20kg were turning my arms into wobbly noodles. Was that or quit it altogether or massively extend rest periods. Took the humbled bullet and dropped the weight.

 

[randyh]

I’ve been running Return of the Kettlebell for seven weeks and I’m loving it, but because of my impatience to get going, I started it without being lean enough (for my satisfaction) to use it as a bulking program. As a consequence, the 32s are taking it out me in a caloric deficit as they’re right on a hard 6RM for the double MP.

I’m about to be limited to 24s (my 14RM) for a few weeks for work (hotel has a very well-stocked gym) so I was thinking I was stuck with changing programs, aiming for fat loss/conditioning instead.

However, I’ve realised today that this limitation my be a blessing in disguise. With Pavel’s recommendation of a 5-15RM, I can turn RoTK into a lighter, lower stress experience on a deficit, shorten the rests, get some fat loss and improved conditioning, all within the published parameters, and I can avoid doing that thing I swore long ago that I’d never do again: program hop.

Once I’m lean enough, I can push it a little more with food and intensity, and stick with RoTK for the long haul as planned.

How do you all approach these dilemmas if and when they pop up for you? Do you ever find yourself changing tack mid-program because you’ve misjudged an element in your psychology or your physical capacity?

It’s very hard to resolve the beliefs that muscle building requires a caloric surplus and fat loss requires a caloric deficit with the goals of building muscle and losing fat and improving performance simultaneously. (Mutually exclusive, essentially, with calorie restriction) It can be done, but it would require an argument about why “calories in and calories out” is flat earth nutrition. Not going there. So if CICO is the operant paradigm, one has to “pick one” of those three goals, stick with it and live with the consequences until achieved. Then next goal, etc.

 

[Tom Flint]

It’s very hard to resolve the beliefs that muscle building requires a caloric surplus and fat loss requires a caloric deficit with the goals of building muscle and losing fat and improving performance simultaneously. (Mutually exclusive, essentially, with calorie restriction) It can be done, but it would require an argument about why “calories in and calories out” is flat earth nutrition. Not going there. So if CICO is the operant paradigm, one has to “pick one” of those three goals, stick with it and live with the consequences until achieved. Then next goal, etc.

Exactly. Keep the goal the goal and all that. But I’m discovering that a program marketed for muscle and strength can just as easily be biased towards a slightly different outcome by tinkering within the stated parameters of the program.

With a short 4- to 12-week program designed for a certain purpose, one should definitely be single-minded about achieving that goal, but with a program like RoTK that people are using for 6 months to a year or more, there has to be some scope for an altered bias.

Depending on the person, an average trainee may divide a year into three or four discrete training phases (fat loss/conditioning, pure strength, hypertrophy, for example), with a different program for each. If you’re aiming to ride a program out for a year, though, it’s natural that some intelligent modifications might want making while keeping the program the program. The goal posts can shift within.

By the way, ‘eating in a deficit’ was my shorthand for ‘eating better and consequently less’ (my best results always come from a Primal way of eating with IF), though calorie counting for a few months last year worked aesthetic wonders. CICO is definitely a thing, even if it’s through some very complex processes.

The fact is that with the right approach, hypertrophy, strength and fat loss can all occur simultaneously (I love Menno Henselmans on this topic). It’s just that the dial will be adjusted based on your eating.

 

[watchnerd]

How do you all approach these dilemmas if and when they pop up for you? Do you ever find yourself changing tack mid-program because you’ve misjudged an element in your psychology or your physical capacity?

Off the shelf programs, by their nature, cannot take personal circumstances into account.

I've ramped things up or down accordingly.