all posts post new thread

Other/Mixed Reflections on "Workout ADHD"

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)

DavThew

Level 6 Valued Member
After a recent SFG user day course, and a decent amount of reflection I have come to some conclusions about my behaviour in relation to exercise and program hopping.

My training age is quite young. I am 27 and started training with weights at the age of 22. As was pointed out on my course, “You get 2 years for free”, meaning that however you train in your first few years you will probably get results. After that you need to get smart. Furthermore in those first couple of years you seem amazing progress, doubling what you can press above your head within months, conditioning massively improving over your peers etc. This all leads you to expect that progress like that is normal, and achieving less than that is the fault of the program.

You feel the difference really quickly, therefore trusting a program is very easy. As you get older in training years you start to notice the subjective “feeling” changes take more time to set in with a program. You therefore decide that within a few days of starting a program that it’s not for you, and decide to hop to something else.

The guys who are best at this often don’t care what weight they are actually lifting. I remember reading Geoff Neupert writing about how one of the most productive times of his training was when he gave a month over to just doing the getup, often without weight. The pros know that you will have time to improve in other domains at other times.

This leads me on to workout ADHD. I suck at 8 week programs. I rock at 4 week programs. I can tolerate 6 week programs, but spend the 5th week telling myself that I’m almost at the end. I cannot actually remember a point when I finished a program that was formally 8 weeks. That’s not to say I haven’t trained for more than that time in the past. ETK ROP and S&S are both programs I followed for many months, but that was early on, when endless programs continued to show amazing results quickly. Now when I look at an “endless” program I end up thinking about how boring I might find it in seven Tuesdays time, this makes me think the whole program is boring. This derails me.

Working towards technical perfection in a move feels less satisfying in the short term than lifting heavy. It is much more satisfying in the long term. Having received a few fantastic cues from Claire and Roger on the SFG user course I enjoy every rep more, even if I am using weights that I might have laughed at a couple of weeks ago.

The point of training is not to impress everyone with how much weight you can lift. Whilst this is obviously not true for strength athletes who are competitive (powerlifters, strongman, olympic lifters)I am not one of these. Of course some of my friends are impressed that I can bent press the beast when they come to visit my home and ask me about that gargantuan piece of metal in the corner, but that isn’t the point is it? Most of them would be impressed with my doing that with 32kg.

My aims are as follows:
1. Be well conditioned enough to hike comfortably for long distances, to see beautiful things.
2. Be strong enough and well conditioned enough to be a good student of Tae Kwon Do.
3. Be able to walk down the street with my partner when we are both elderly, without a stick or frame, with as little pain as possible.

Training is not for entertainment, but enjoyment makes it much easier. Enjoyment is often tied to variety. I have no current “big weight goals”, yeh sure hitting Sinister might be great, but not enough to make me focus on it whilst neglecting my doubles work for that whole time. Too much variety/distraction is also a problem, to this end I am taking away my choice, I am selling my superfluous training equipment, trimming down to my kettlebells, pullup bar and ab wheel.

So how does this relate to choosing a program? Timescale is probably my big limiting factor. Whenever I do a longer program I worry about neglecting lifts from other areas. For the time being I am going to only work programs that are a MAXIMUM of 6 weeks. So right now I am doing a Chris Lopez swing program with TGUs; yes it basically becomes S&S in the end but I know there is a defined end point, and after that I might go onto something with double kettlebells, or maybe hit my snatch and bent press, who knows? That decision is for 5 weeks and four days time.
 
Hello,

Lots of pros use cycles in their training. For instance, if you look at the prep for fight sports you will see different steps: strength, power, endurance, technique... Each one has a major and a minor.

What I mostly see is that a step lasts at least one month, and 6 weeks max.

To make progress, I think we have to make cycles to discover other moves, make our muscles work differently, learn new skills... But I can use some long-term training (S&S...) if you feel good with and if you have pleasure to do them.

On the long-term perspective, the more you keep on with the same training, the less you progress. It is not true only at the beginning...as the saying "every training works for one month"

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Unless you are tied to some weight class limitations in your sport Tae Kwon Do you might try what old-timers (also G. Neupert
in Kettlebell Muscle) recommended: alternate hypertrophy and strength training cycles.

You can use different movements in both cycles so this can perhaps help to increase your "program stickness".
 
@DavThew... you have great goals. I know many 'older' people who wake up one day and say "what the heck just happened!" I'm sure you've heard the old adage about variety being the spice of life; it applies here.
@pet' also brings up a great point. Cycles in training... I share some of your aims, but I also train for events, such as races or a big climbing trip. To do that I cycle through phases of strength, power endurance, and endurance.

Interesting choices on how you are minimizing your training gear. Besides body weight (and a few bikes) all I have are 3 KB's, pull-up rings, and an ab wheel. And I almost never use the wheel.
 
@DavThew

This leads me on to workout ADHD. I suck at 8 week programs. I rock at 4 week programs. I can tolerate 6 week programs, but spend the 5th week telling myself that I’m almost at the end. I cannot actually remember a point when I finished a program that was formally 8 weeks.

"Keep the goal, the goal." - Dan John

After all my years of training (25), this quote from Dan is the one that hits home the most for me. Whatever your goal, training is all about getting your mind right first and then carving your path with programming. You have explained in great detail what you suck at, let's hear what you are great at instead!

It looks to me like you already have a great foundation if you are bent pressing the Beast at age 27 and a member of the StrongFirst Forum.

Oh yeah, another good one..."Power to you!" - Pavel
 
All nice and well, but what do you do with S&S? I mean, it sure will take me a lot of time before I even am at the Simple goal of handling the 32kg bell. I currently am swinging with the 16, and working the 24 into TGU. Don't you plateau in this system then?
 
Hello,

@Steve Freides
Thanks. Gonna read it again.

I am not an expert at all, but some sports require more versatility than others.

Hiking for example does not require max strength.

For instance, climbing require muscle endurance (so i would be high reps with light weights / no weight), cardio (running / HIIT) , max strength (OA pull up for eg...), power (jumps, clapping push ups and so on).

In that case, you are obliged to have cycles because theses muscle specificities are too different.

Nevertheless, would it be interesting to build a program like this one, on a week basis ?
monday : muscle endurance (high reps)
wednesday : HIIT for cardio and power training
friday : max strength (heavy weights, low reps)

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Life is long, iron is expensive, don't sell your other gear unless you need the space.

For myself, I don't even have programs I stick with. Back when I was into bodybuilding protocol I had cycles of heavy low rep and cycles of higher rep to failure etc. Designed to relentlessly increase hypertrophy first, strength second - strength the means to achieve more size.

Over the years as I shifted to a lot more variety I tend to train more instinctively. If I want more size, I'll start to train more to failure - more strength, I'll up the weight and do fewer reps, more rest. Basic stuff.

Mostly what I like about the way I've structured my KB workouts is they follow the "middle path". I feel they hit a lot of aspects without leaving me feeling wasted or setting me up for injury. Like you , I want to be fully functional as long as possible, and as high a level as practical. Had my kids late in life and I don't want my age to limit my activities with them in terms of sports, camping etc.

At 49 I'm already dealing with some chronic issues that are never going away, some of which are self-inflicted. I don't need my training to give me any more. Have been exercising more or less continuously for the last 40 years, since I was 9. For over 30 years I've been working jobs with physical component, some extremely demanding. Better or worse I set my own limits these days, though I do explore the setup and thinking behind some of the programs out there and adopt aspects from time to time.

The better shape one is in, the better one can handle the strains of aging - as long as the joints stay healthy. Is important to understand the why as well as the what when setting goals, to listen to one's body as well as the mind.
 
I've been breaking up my year into different cycles. However, when I come back around to a cycle, I feel that I have lost everything I gained the last time I was there. I feel like it may be quite valuable to combine those cycles and progress them all much slower but at the same time.
 
As @Steve Freides said, RTOK uses 2 week cycles, Easy Strength has somewhere a suggestion for cycling 2 week PttP / 2 week PM (I think ETK says something about it as well). In Intervention Dan John takes his/Pavel's Simple Strength /40-day program and have an option dragging it over 12 weeks (instead of 8) by introducing 1 week of power/conditioning/variety after every 2 weeks of the original program.

Being somewhat ADHD myself I adopted this approach for the last 13-14 weeks. So far it feels good, just make sure you keep Easy Strength park bench mentality :)
 
interesting thread- it seems to show there are different things that get lumped into "workout ADD" that may or may not be a problem. Seems doing a number of moves or shorter cycles is not a problem and may be a good thing, if it meets people's goals and is sensible on the whole. If there's a lot of variety plus overtraining/insufficient recovery, that's the problem, not the variety, and my impression is this might be more of an issue for the OP than the variety. I thought the original "workout ADD" term was coined for people who didn't really do a program effectively, but used the lure of something new as an excuse to just slack off- more of undertraining issue, and a lack of discipline and persistence.
 
You might like this set of frameworks: http://anthonymychal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The242Method.pdf

I did ETK in high school, CC in college, and then started my own programs once I felt I read enough of Pavel's, Dan John's, Steve Justa's, Coach Sommer's and other's writings on the ideas behind their programming.

Once you know the principles, it's not that hard to make something tailor-made to your lifting interests/goals. I agree exercising should be enjoyable, but I'm not one who finds the "variety" allure that powerful. I like making programs with exercises I like and feel good about improving.

Working towards technical perfection in a move feels less satisfying in the short term than lifting heavy.

Why? They are one in the same. Committing to technical mastery is learning how to lift things heavier. If you can't do it in good form, than you're only cheating and lying to yourself that you can do it heavier. Not only that, but it can be unsafe as well. There is good reason for the SF quote "Safety is viewed as a part of, not the opposite of, performance."
 
@DavThew

"Keep the goal, the goal." - Dan John

After all my years of training (25), this quote from Dan is the one that hits home the most for me. Whatever your goal, training is all about getting your mind right first and then carving your path with programming. You have explained in great detail what you suck at, let's hear what you are great at instead!

It looks to me like you already have a great foundation if you are bent pressing the Beast at age 27 and a member of the StrongFirst Forum.

Oh yeah, another good one..."Power to you!" - Pavel

Dan is truly the man!

Here is a promotional video for another gem from Dan John that really hits the nail, "Now What?"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Closed Thread. (Continue Discussion of This Topic by Starting a New Thread.)
Back
Top Bottom