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Barbell Relative strength while building an aerobic base?

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coolrunnings

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Hi all

I am training for my country's military and have about a year. I am a bit out of shape at the moment due to a back injury, so have some weight to lose also. I'm currently 6'2, 230lbs, (ideal would be 190lbs). Here is my plan:

Phase 1 - GENERAL PREP
Goals: 10 mile run in under 80 minutes, 315lb squat. injury proof myself.
Length: 30-35 weeks

Aerobic: I'm starting a very gentle / gradual couch to marathon program. Will keep my heart rate in the Maffetone zone to keep it purely aerobic to build the base. Will involve walking / running 3-5 days weekly. Max volume at the peak will be 35-40 miles.

Strength: this is where I'm not too sure. I want to get my strength up to 315lb squat +. I was thinking 10-12 weeks of S&S to build a solid base, and then 20-25 weeks of 2x per week S&S and 3x per week ES (squat, deadlift, bench). Maybe also throw in a "daily dose" period at some point.

I am going to follow a sensible diet and will look to lose weight slowly (primarily as a result of the increased activity levels)

Phase 2 - SPORT SPECIFIC
Goals: improve my sport specific conditioning. injury proof myself. 1.5 mile run in under 9 minutes
Length: 26 weeks

I will be using specific military athlete, sports specific programming

Conventional wisdom would say it's impossible to develop aerobic endurance and strength at the same time...but that's why I love this board and Pavel's methods. It seems low rep / high intensity relative strength training goes well with low intensity maffetone-esque aerobic work.

Thanks!
 
Would also be good to get out of these orthotics I'm currently relying on...but this may be too risky given my relatively condensed timeframe. Maybe I ramp up my gentle marathon walk / run program using barefoot and POSE technique?

The program is Tim Noakes 36 week couch to marathon. The first 4 weeks is just walking, then it transitions to walk / run (running 5m at a time) and finally after 16 weeks just running 20-30m at a time. Would this be gentle enough?
 
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Thanks very much Steve - great to be here. Apologies if I broke protocol by starting a thread before introducing myself.
 
From back in "The Day" (when scientific papers were much easier to read) comes the study paper that first documented the classic "interference effect" the Crossfitters have been desperately denying the existence of for some time now. The interference effect refers to the deleterious effect endurance training has on strength development. It's a good thing to avoid.

https://g-se.com/uploads/biblioteca...aining_for_strength_and_endurance_hickson.pdf
 
From back in "The Day" (when scientific papers were much easier to read) comes the study paper that first documented the classic "interference effect" the Crossfitters have been desperately denying the existence of for some time now. The interference effect refers to the deleterious effect endurance training has on strength development. It's a good thing to avoid.

https://g-se.com/uploads/biblioteca...aining_for_strength_and_endurance_hickson.pdf

Cool study, thanks!

I would be interested to see a study where endurance was performed before or after strength training, rather than just 2h apart.

Also, I wonder if things wouldve been different if the cardio was kept to a low level (ie Maffetone heart rate zone). The cardio in this study seemed pretty intense.
 
Would also be good to get out of these orthotics I'm currently relying on...but this may be too risky given my relatively condensed timeframe. Maybe I ramp up my gentle marathon walk / run program using barefoot and POSE technique?

The program is Tim Noakes 36 week couch to marathon. The first 4 weeks is just walking, then it transitions to walk / run (running 5m at a time) and finally after 16 weeks just running 20-30m at a time. Would this be gentle enough?

It depends on if you have done barefoot / Pose running before. If not then I wouldnt put it as a goal to run a marathon using the Pose method in just 9 months. For me, it took about a year (setbacks included) to go from regular running shoes with lots of cushioning to neutral, minimalist shoes with barely any cushioning. Because basically every muscle, joints and tendons in my legs needed time to adapt the new workload provided by the Pose method.

According to your Phase 1, you plan to do strength & conditioning 5 times a week plus doing a program for a marathon, plus learning the pose method. Thats a lot of work. I'm not saying you cant do it, but if you did, then I would be very impressed.

If your ultimate goal is to injury proof yourself, then I would have that as a first priority. Because once you get there, once you have learned the correct technique, you can safely ramp up your intensity and volume.
 
For minimalist footwear try subbing them out in your activities of daily living. Start with short trips. Ive been wearing such shoes as long as climate allows for years now but when my buddy started just wearing then to his job as an engineer left him in pain the next day.
 
For minimalist footwear try subbing them out in your activities of daily living. Start with short trips. Ive been wearing such shoes as long as climate allows for years now but when my buddy started just wearing then to his job as an engineer left him in pain the next day.
Good advice. I've been wearing these Feivue shoes every other day to get used to them - every other day seems to work for me to allow my gait to adapt.

-S-
 
Ah steve, youve touched a subject close to my heart! Welcome to the best shoes youll ever own! Can i take credit from my post a few months ago about them? Abaolutely fantastic shoes, and at 25 bucks a pop you cant go wrong!
 
Thanks for the advice everyone.

Does anyone have any thoughts on S&S vs. ES or a combo for building relative strength?

Thanks
 
Ah steve, youve touched a subject close to my heart! Welcome to the best shoes youll ever own! Can i take credit from my post a few months ago about them? Abaolutely fantastic shoes, and at 25 bucks a pop you cant go wrong!
you posted about them here and someone also posted them on a group we have on Facebook. I honestly don't remember which I saw first.

-S-
 
try Alex Viada book, hybrid athlete. In general, developing aerobic adaptations and strength uses different energetic pathways(phosphagen ), so by doing low volume high intensity work, you are able to increase your strength and build base.
What is important to consider :
when you do your aerobic work - and in which zone you will work
when you do your strength work -

I think that separation of this two will give you good results. I wouldn't do Simple and Sinister along with Easy Strength, i would do one or the other, but IMO you won't get what you want from Simple A S. ( no squatting and this what have you wrote as your main strength goal)
Option 1
I would do Easy Strength in block A , 2-3 times a week, and running 2 times a week + technique work on pose, 315lbs squat is not really that heavy so you will get it in 3-4 months
after that i would focus on maintaining strength with two sessions of ES and running. Also we need to remember you are beginner. So it really doesn't matter that much what will you do for strength training, cos there is "novice effect" in work. So everything will get your squat numbers up.

Option 2
Do starting strength program, and gain decent level of strength. Along that, learn to run but do not run much if at all.

After this, proceed with your "coach to marathon" program, then you can do SS or ES as maintain program.

Also conventional wisdom about strength training and aerobic training looks at athletes. You and i are not professional athletes. :)

I recommend everything by Andrew Read also - for example :

How Elite Endurance Athletes Got There (And How You Can Too)

Also look up this :
Tactical Barbell: Definitive Strength Training for the Operational Athlete
Tactical Barbell II: Conditioning

But in nut shell " some strength work, few days a week and intelligent conditioning work throw in"
 
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TB has an effective approach. Scroll down a little and read the "Roadmap for Operational Athletes" part:

TB II: Conditioning - UPDATE Sept 20th | Tactical Barbell

Basically max strength 2-3 x week plus 3-5 aerobic/endurance sessions, with a slow transition to higher intensity conditioning and a short conversion to strength-endurance block. Or vice-versa, strength-endurance first with a transition to maximal strength later. I ran the latter with excellent results, but in hindsight I should've stuck to the former (max-strength model). I found the strength-endurance work reached a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly.
 
From back in "The Day" (when scientific papers were much easier to read) comes the study paper that first documented the classic "interference effect" the Crossfitters have been desperately denying the existence of for some time now. The interference effect refers to the deleterious effect endurance training has on strength development. It's a good thing to avoid.

https://g-se.com/uploads/biblioteca...aining_for_strength_and_endurance_hickson.pdf

Meh. Paper smaper. I cycle pttp and s and s with 2-3 40-60 minute Maffetone style endurance workouts and 3-5 hours of bjj a week. I hit simple and got my dead over two times body weight. Never had a problem gaining strength.
 
Hey,

May be this is not the very right forum but you can try something like:

Day 1:
kettlebell swing and / or snatch with a relatively light weight (in function of your condition of course, but I would not use heavier than 24). You will make long sets (15 or more), for 20-30 minutes.

Day 2:
Strength movements (either barbell or kettlebells): get ups / squats / bent press

Day 3:
stretching (kind of "soft recovery")

Then you repeat and have a total rest day.

From my experience, I did not lose endurance by using long sets with kettlebell.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
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