Kettlebell Replacement for Get-ups, as Complement to Swings?

[Sean M]

This is an interesting topic, I'm not doing get ups either due to a patellar tendinosis and apparently this happens to a lot of us. I'm at the moment doing presses and I like it, but I'm not sure if it is the best choice, and also don't know how to program it.

So far I am replacing each get up by 1 clean and 5 military presses. I'm not cleaning each time as the clean appears to have a lot of overlap with the swing. Does this make sense?

I had also considered doing the bent press, but as @Shahaf Levin and @rickyw say, it was far too technical to do during an injury period. I tried windmills, which were a bit easier, but found that they were loading my hamstrings too much together with the swings.

The partial get ups sound like a good idea. how would you program these? Maybe doing doubles instead of singles, for a total of 5x2 partial GU per arm?

Perhaps this: (it's what I would do if my knee were bothering me):
- 5 total reps per arm
- Clean and press
- Windmill at the top
- Front squat
- Switch hands and repeat
- Rest after both sides are complete
- Use bell that you can do all the moves with, but is sufficiently challenging (requires the focus, tension, "breathing behind the shield", and "flow" of a heavy getup)

 

[Steve W.]

I am not a get up guy. I just don't enjoy them and don't do them. I have practiced them enough for RKC certification (when Pavel was still RKC) and recertification, but avoid them otherwise.

Some other drills I train regularly or occasionally mix in that address overlapping areas (although I don't think of them as get up "substitutes"):
--Segmental rolling -- see the OS YouTube channel and/or books for lots of variations/progressions/regressions.
--KB arm bars.
--KB windmill/windmill stick stretch (a la Dan John).
--KB presses.
--KB overhead lunges. Don't bang your knee! Go down under control, and gently touch or even stop before touching.
--KB overhead walks.
--KB snatch.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Bent-Press to get the bell overhead, then a windmill, then a lunge.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Oscar]

Bent-Press to get the bell overhead, then a windmill, then a lunge.

Pet, don't you find that this sequence targets the hamstrings too much after swings?

The TGU has a few hip hinges or hip extensions, like the kneeling windmill or the lunge. But in my opinion these are more glute-driven hip movements, as the knee is bent (in particular the kneeling windmill). Therefore not that much load on the hamstrings.

I was doing 2 windmills in replacement of GU, but my hamstrings ended up really sore. So I eventually stopped doing them and just did presses. A bent press +windmill appears similar to two windmills. Or maybe my hamstrings are really weak. Or my glutes not contributing enough.

@Sean M I like that progression , thanks, I might give it a go.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

@Oscar windmills and bent presses are very different from person to person, different hip structures, limb ratios etc.
E.g. for me there's no significant hamstring involvement or I just don't feel it.
Anyway, S&S is low volume, a couple of extra reps involving the hammies shouldn't give you trouble.

 

[the hansenator]

Hasn't Dan John recommended pairing swings and pushups?

 

[Ian V]

Indeed he has and it makes for a very effective workout. I also get "enjoyment" from pairing snatches and press ups

 

[Michael Perry]

I also have an issue with getups and took @Brett Jones advice that most of the benefit of the get up can be had by going up to kneeling.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

I also have an issue with getups and took @Brett Jones advice that most of the benefit of the get up can be had by going up to kneeling.

I don't have any problems with the TGU, but a lot of people in this thread talk about how bad knees make TGUs painful for them.
You have problems with moving out of the kneeling position (-> the lunge), but just kneeling doesn't hurt at all?
Just curious here.

 

[Michael Perry]

I don't have any problems with the TGU, but a lot of people in this thread talk about how bad knees make TGUs painful for them.
You have problems with moving out of the kneeling position (-> the lunge), but just kneeling doesn't hurt at all?
Just curious here.

@Kettlebelephant yes that's correct. My issue is with my toes (I know, right?) so the problem comes with loading the ball of the back foot - even a little - to stand or to come back down.

So totally different than a knee issue, but advice not to replace getups because of it still applies I think.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I have been experiencing some instability in my left knee for the last five days, possibly due to strained ligaments. I think the cause was sitting too long in a seiza position to increase plantar flexion of my ankles. I will have the knee checked out by a doctor next week.

I have been training Simple & Sinister for about 7 months. Even with my knee instability, I think I will still be able to do swings, but I'm not certain about get-ups (mainly because of the stress that that my knees feel in the lunge position). If it turns out that I cannot perform get-ups for a while (or ever), are there one or two other exercises I can substitute for the get-ups that will complement the swing? Thanks.

Can you do a regular squat?

I have used Bent Press to a low squat as a substitute. Front squat to a press or jerk is probably the best bang for your time.

To be honest, for long-term or permanent replacement I would actually sub out two movements to replace the TGU as there just isn't one single move that does everything the TGU can.

 

[Gerry K]

@Kettlebelephant yes that's correct. My issue is with my toes (I know, right?) so the problem comes with loading the ball of the back foot - even a little - to stand or to come back down.

So totally different than a knee issue, but advice not to replace getups because of it still applies I think.

Same here. Toe injuries prevent me from loading the back foot to stand with a heavy bell. So I do what I can: full TGUs with bells up to 24K, partials above that.

Somehow good to find out I'm not the only one limited by his toes! Thank you, Michael.

 

[Smile-n-Nod]

Can you do a regular squat?

I still can. My knees feel almost normal, but there's still some movement and popping noises occasionally. I'm going to the doctor on Friday.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I still can. My knees feel almost normal, but there's still some movement and popping noises occasionally. I'm going to the doctor on Friday.

Squats are generally tolerated better by folks with knee issues compared to lunges. If you have good shoulder mobility, an overhead squat is a good move. Otherwise break it up into a front squat/overhead press.

You still don't get the benefit of coming all the way up from the floor. I sympathize with your issue, as do many others based on the responses - lunges don't agree with everybody.

Here's another variation but requires good ankle and knee mobility.

 

[Oscar]

Here's another variation but requires good ankle and knee mobility

Thats a nice alternative, thanks for sharing it. At the moment I dont know if my disconfort during TGU comes from the weight on the knee at the kneeling position, or from the lunge. I will give it a try and see how it goes.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Thats a nice alternative, thanks for sharing it. At the moment I dont know if my disconfort during TGU comes from the weight on the knee at the kneeling position, or from the lunge. I will give it a try and see how it goes.

Its actually a real nice twist. Just have to be careful getting used to the transition when bringing the down knee up into the squat.

Also helps to pause after getting into the squat for a second before coming up, especially if you aren't used to doing overhead squats - there's a tendency to pitch forward.

 

[Oscar]

Its actually a real nice twist. Just have to be careful getting used to the transition when bringing the down knee up into the squat.

Also helps to pause after getting into the squat for a second before coming up, especially if you aren't used to doing overhead squats - there's a tendency to pitch forward.

Agreed. My ankle dorsiflexion is not as good as your mutant ankle dorsiflexion (with all due respect), so I cant keep such an upright torso at the bottom of the overhead squat. So maybe I will consider lowering the bell to the rack before transitioning to the squat position, doing a front squat and pressing the bell again.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Agreed. My ankle dorsiflexion is not as good as your mutant ankle dorsiflexion (with all due respect), so I cant keep such an upright torso at the bottom of the overhead squat. So maybe I will consider lowering the bell to the rack before transitioning to the squat position, doing a front squat and pressing the bell again.

Another tweak you might try is to not pause the movement. When you pivot, drop back onto the haunch of the upper leg and begin to raise the down knee, just continue up at that point. You get the benefit of bilateral support on the way up and don't have to sink quite so low to the floor.

I just did a few more of these when I got home from work (haven't done this variation in quite some time), darn challenging.

 

[Oscar]

@North Coast Miller is this what you mean?



This guy moves beautifully

 

[jef]

This guy moves beautifully

Louka Kurcer. I had the opportunity to meet him at the SFL in Prague. Very strong, incredibly flexible, and a nice guy, on top of that. Most of his videos are worth watching.

Concerning the replacement for the getup, I would suggest to stay with the getup, with this squat variation.

Sure, there is a standard way of doing the getup that is described in S&S.
It is the one that is taught and tested for SFG cert. I also find it to be the more practical to teach novices, with small easily demonstrated steps.

It does not mean it is the only one that can be done, and people proficient in the standard SFG GU can get creative. As long as it is a safe variation...

Hop, I think I am going to do some squat getups today.