Barbell Replacing deadlifts with single leg deadlifts
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It's absolutely an assistance lift only. The lack of stability will always limit the weight.
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pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
Nice article from Karen:
The Single-leg Deadlift: The Most Underutilized and Powerful Skill | StrongFirst
As a quote of the article:
Adding the SLDL into your training program will improve your balance and help you hit new personal records in your pistol, get-up, and barbell deadlift, while having carryover to many other skills. No matter your goals, it’s an excellent and often underutilized skill to work into your training.
Kind regards,
Pet'
Nice article from Karen:
The Single-leg Deadlift: The Most Underutilized and Powerful Skill | StrongFirst
As a quote of the article:
Adding the SLDL into your training program will improve your balance and help you hit new personal records in your pistol, get-up, and barbell deadlift, while having carryover to many other skills. No matter your goals, it’s an excellent and often underutilized skill to work into your training.
Kind regards,
Pet'
Spartan Agoge
Level 6 Valued Member
Not a good idea, in my opinion.
single leg deadlift is a great assistance, which improves stability, but it can't replace deadlifts.
Nothing can replace conventional deadlift.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Boyle On Training
One of the area that Boyle advocates is...
Stability Training Devices
These devices are effective in Physical Therapy Rehabilitation. They assist in reprogramming proprioceptors.
However, Stability Training Devices have little value in training athletes. Just because Stability Training Devices work for injured individual, doesn't mean they are going to work for athletes.
Tudor Bompa
This is the guy who literally wrote the book on Periodization Training.
At a National Strength and Conditioning Conference, Bompa was quizzed on Stability Training Devices.
Bompa's reply was, "If you play on a Wobble Field, then train on a Wobble Board".
The Law of Specificity
Bompa stated the most effective method of Stability Training came from the sport itself. The most effective method for women to increase and prefect their stability on the Balance Beam was to train on it. The same applies to other sports, as well.
Unilateral Training
Boyle is a proponent of Unilateral Training the use of Stability Devices,.
Unilateral Training, such as One Leg Deadlifts and One Leg Squats (Bulgarian Split Squat, Steps, Lunges, etc), as Steve mentioned, are Assistance Lifts.
"The lack of stability will always limit the weight." Steve
The lack of stability in a One Leg Deadlift or One Leg Squat (such as a Step Up) is an effective method of increasing Stabilizer Muscle Strength. However, it comes at the expense underloading the prime movers, muscles.
An effective method of increase the loading/use more weight with the prime movers in a One Leg Deadlift or One Leg Squat (Step Up) is to hold on to something when performing them; like a Power Rack.
Doing so, minimizes the Stabilize Muscle involvement and increases the loading on the prime movers.
Good and Not So Good Information
With that said, Boyle provides some good information and not so good information.
In the past, I have had some intense discussion with him on some of his belief and method.
Apparently, so have other in the field...
Mark Rippetoe's Perspective
In regard to Boyle complimenting Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength book, year ago; Rippetoe's reply was...
"Disregard the fact that the man (Boyle) has spent the last 2 years running away from basic barbell training as the best method to get strong? Ignore the fact that he contradicts himself with his support of our programs and then his advocacy of one-legged DB split-squats as a basic exercise? Dismiss the fact that he says the back doesn't respond to training as the basic transmitter of force between the ground and the bar?" Source: Post 12 [Mike Boyle - The Death of the Conventional Squat? - Page 2]
Kenny Croxdale
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Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Conventional Deadlift
It is definitely one of the best exercises for the posterior chain.
Good Mornings
However, the Good Mornings rivals the Deadlift and can be substituted.
The Deadlift and Good Morning have the same Ascending Strength Curve; hard in the bottom and easier at the top; the movement pattern is essentially the same.
The forward lean in the Good Morning increases torque. The farther away the bar is from the body's "Center of Gravity, COG" the greater the bar weight is magnified.
That means that a somewhat lighter Good Morning load can equate to a similar heavy loaded Deadlift.
A Different Approach To The Deadlift
Bill Starr
The late Bill Starr (former Olympic Lifter, Powerlifter and Strength Coach) was one of the pioneers in the strength field. Starr's book, The Strongest Shall Survive, training protocol is the foundation for Football Players and other athletes. It is the foundation of Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength training method.
Starr broke the American Deadlift Record (circa 1968) by combining Heavy Good Morning with Power Cleans. A fellow Olympic Lifter, Ernie Pickett came close to the American Deadlift Record in the Heavyweight Class with Heavy Good Mornings and Power Cleans.
"The No Deadlift, Deadlift Program"
The No Deadlift Program to Improve Your Deadlift
The foundation of this article is built on Starr's Good Morning and Power Clean protocol, as a means of increasing the Deadlift.
With that said, some Deadlift Technique Training is necessary for developing the skill.
Kenny Croxdale
Papa Georgio
Level 6 Valued Member
Context
DL and SLDL can't compete head to head for absolute strength, and it doubtful if SLDL will help a lot for the general meat-head looking to raise his DL max.
SLDL great when you don't have access to barbell, or if you have just kettlebells
Obviously the SLDL can't overload the upper part of the posterior, so its great when you have back problems or want to focus more on the lower posterior chain.
DL and SLDL can't compete head to head for absolute strength, and it doubtful if SLDL will help a lot for the general meat-head looking to raise his DL max.
SLDL great when you don't have access to barbell, or if you have just kettlebells
Obviously the SLDL can't overload the upper part of the posterior, so its great when you have back problems or want to focus more on the lower posterior chain.
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
I've done good things with Good Mornings.
SLDL becomes load limiting very quickly in my experience, though it is very effective at light to moderate loading.
SLDL becomes load limiting very quickly in my experience, though it is very effective at light to moderate loading.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Stiff Leg Deadlift
The Stiff Leg Deadlift definitely work the lower back.
Research by Dr Tom McLaughlin (posted on this site multiple times) determined that the Conventional Deadlifter, initiate the drive off the floor with their lower back.
McLaughlin biomechanical analysis involved top Deadlifters: Lamar Gant, Jon Kuc, Bill Kazmaier, and Vince Anello.
McLaughlin found that these lifter focused on Stiff Leg Deadlifts in their training program, which increased their strength in breaking the weight off the floor.
The Take Home Message
Stiff Leg Deadlifts without a doubt will help Conventional Dealifters.
Kenny Croxdale
User 4484
Guest
Whats your view on romanian deadlift? Alone and versus the conventional deadlift?
Papa Georgio
Level 6 Valued Member
Sorry Kenny, I believe you. I was using SLDL for "single leg dead lift"
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Romanian Deadlift
This is a good exercise. However, I never have really used it. For some reason, I just never liked it.
It's like carrots for me. I know they are good but I don't like them and won't eat them.
I have other alternative vegetables that I consume that I like or in the case of hamstring training, I use other exercise that I like.
With that said, here's some interesting research on Romanian Deadlift from Ergo-Log.com This is a great site that provides you with a synopsis on research articles.
Which exercise is better? The conventional deadlift or the Romanian deadlift?
"...The Romanian deadlift is an intermediate between the conventional deadlift and the stiff-legged deadlift."
The Study
"The researchers applied electrodes to the men's skin so that they could see how hard the muscles underneath had to work."
Results
"The regular deadlift stimulated the rectus femoris leg muscle but also the large gluteal gluteus maximus to a higher degree than the Romanian deadlift."
The best two exercises for the back of your legs
"Romanian deadlift and the glute ham raise are the best exercises."
Results
"The...Romanian deadlift is the best exercise for the biceps femoris."
For the semitendinosus and the semimembranosus, the Romanian deadlift was the best exercise for the eccentric movement. For the concentric movement the glute ham raise was best.
Some of The Other Best Hamstring Exercises
1) nordic hamstring curl - YouTube
As you probably know, this is a brutal but great exercise that I occasionally use.
2) Razor Curls
This is one of my favorite hamstring exercises.
a) Glute Hamstring Razor Curls
If you don't have access to a Glute Ham Bench...
b) Ab Wheel Banded Razor Curls
This exercise really fries you hamstrings.
A Band can be attached to increase the resistance.
On A Personal Note
Some of my other favorite hamstring exercise are...
1) Heavy Partial Good Mornings: Placing the bar in the rack and performing a Quarter or Half Good Morning.
2) Quazi-Plyometeric Good Morning: Car Straps are hung from the top of he Power Rack with the bottom position being just a little above a Half Good Morning Position. The knees are slightly bent.
The bar loading should be light to moderately heavy.
Maintain control while allowing the bar to basically free fall to the Car Straps (place the rack pins just below for safety). The dramatic speed in the eccentric drop elicits the stretch reflex to some degree.
Allow the bar to bounce off the Car Straps and then violently drive it back up, with as much force as you can.
The intent is to go airborne, performing a Good Morning Jump.
I perform the movement with Bands and/or Chains attached. This ensures the posterior chain muscles are trained through a greater range of the movement.
3) Various Hip/Back Extensions: 45 Degree and 90 Degree Hip/Back Extensions
Contreras' Video below demonstrate how to perform them.
Contreras Hip/Back Extension Demo Video
One of the main keys to this movement is "Neck Packing"; tucking your neck into your chest.
This means you end up with your back slightly rounded. This places the workload on the hamstrings and glutes while minimizing the lower back involvement.
Practical Experience
The best thing to do is to try them and see which one you prefer and feel like works for you.
Kenny Croxdale
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User 4484
Guest
The Romanian Deadlift
This is a good exercise. However, I never have really used it. For some reason, I just never liked it.
It's like carrots for me. I know they are good but I don't like them and won't eat them.
I have other alternative vegetables that I consume that I like or in the case of hamstring training, I use other exercise that I like.
With that said, here's some interesting research on Romanian Deadlift from Ergo-Log.com This is a great site that provides you with a synopsis on research articles.
Which exercise is better? The conventional deadlift or the Romanian deadlift?
"...The Romanian deadlift is an intermediate between the conventional deadlift and the stiff-legged deadlift."
The Study
"The researchers applied electrodes to the men's skin so that they could see how hard the muscles underneath had to work."
Results
"The regular deadlift stimulated the rectus femoris leg muscle but also the large gluteal gluteus maximus to a higher degree than the Romanian deadlift."
The best two exercises for the back of your legs
"Romanian deadlift and the glute ham raise are the best exercises."
Results
"The...Romanian deadlift is the best exercise for the biceps femoris."
For the semitendinosus and the semimembranosus, the Romanian deadlift was the best exercise for the eccentric movement. For the concentric movement the glute ham raise was best.
Some of The Other Best Hamstring Exercises
1) nordic hamstring curl - YouTube
As you probably know, this is a brutal but great exercise that I occasionally use.
2) Razor Curls
This is one of my favorite hamstring exercises.
a) Glute Hamstring Razor Curls
If you don't have access to a Glute Ham Bench...
b) Ab Wheel Banded Razor Curls
This exercise really fries you hamstrings.
A Band can be attached to increase the resistance.
On A Personal Note
Some of my other favorite hamstring exercise are...
1) Heavy Partial Good Mornings: Placing the bar in the rack and performing a Quarter or Half Good Morning.
2) Quazi-Plyometeric Good Morning: Car Straps are hung from the top of he Power Rack with the bottom position being just a little above a Half Good Morning Position. The knees are slightly bent.
The bar loading should be light to moderately heavy.
Maintain control while allowing the bar to basically free fall to the Car Straps (place the rack pins just below for safety). The dramatic speed in the eccentric drop elicits the stretch reflex to some degree.
Allow the bar to bounce off the Car Straps and then violently drive it back up, with as much force as you can.
The intent is to go airborne, performing a Good Morning Jump.
I perform the movement with Bands and/or Chains attached. This ensures the posterior chain muscles are trained through a greater range of the movement.
3) Various Hip/Back Extensions: 45 Degree and 90 Degree Hip/Back Extensions
Contreras' Video below demonstrate how to perform them.
Contreras Hip/Back Extension Demo Video
One of the main keys to this movement is "Neck Packing"; tucking your neck into your chest.
This means you end up with your back slightly rounded. This places the workload on the hamstrings and glutes while minimizing the lower back involvement.
Practical Experience
The best thing to do is to try them and see which one you prefer and feel like works for you.
Kenny Croxdale
Great stuff as always! Thank you Kenny!
@Karen Smith 's SLDL progressions, technique, and programming completely changed my mind about SLDLs.
Karen, would you be so kind to share your wisdom, please?
Karen, would you be so kind to share your wisdom, please?
Karen Smith
Level 6 Valued Member
Master Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Iron Maiden
YES thank you @Pavel Macek!
I read several Post stating it is only an assistance exercise and I have to say I absolutely disagree! I feel SO strongly about the SLDL Single Leg Deadlift and its progressions that I now teach a 3+ hour workout on just the SLDL and OAPU called SIMPLE STRENGTH.
I designed this workshop for a group at Pavel Macek’s gym when I was heading to Prague last summer. He enjoyed it and said I must repeat this workout or turn it into an online program.
So that is what I currently working on!
I am teaching this workshop in San Clemente California on Sun Feb 9th for anyone who is interested lmk. I can send you the registration link.
I have Removed the Barbell Deadlift and strictly do SLDL (bw and kb) and its progressions.
When I last returned to test my barbell DL baseline I was Holding steady at 1.8 x my Bodyweight without touching the bar in years. I also Hit a PR when I tried an SLDL with the bar and pull Bodyweight on one leg!
So if anyone interested in more on SLDL please reach out of tag me
always happy to help
mikhael
Level 9 Valued Member
@Karen Smith would you advise me with implementing SLDL into my routine? I do DL 4-5x a week (following PTTP).
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
@Karen Smith
When you do SLDL with a load, could you please tell us how much weight do you use ?
Thanks again for all your great info !
Kind regards,
Pet'
@Karen Smith
When you do SLDL with a load, could you please tell us how much weight do you use ?
Thanks again for all your great info !
Kind regards,
Pet'
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Single Leg Stiff Leg Deadlift Assistance Exercise
The Single Leg Stiff Leg Deadlift is a good Assistance Exercise, as with most Unilateral Exercises. However, as per...
This is true for various reason. The primary reason, as per Steve Freides...
"The lack of stability will always limit the weight."
Unilateral Exercises, such as a Single Leg Deadlift is a great movement that increase strength in the Stabilizer Muscles.
However, due to the lack of stability, the amount of weight in the movement is limited.
That means that the Stabilizer Muscles are overloaded while the Prime Muscles in the movement are underloaded.
Overloading The Prime Muscles
The greater the stability in an exercise, the greater the overload placed on the Prime Muscles in that movement.
Bilateral Back Squat Vs Leg Press Example
The Back Squat is a good exercise for working the Quads and Glutes. However, the Back Squat doesn't allow you to overload the Quads and Glutes.
The limiting factor is the Lower Back; a much smaller muscle group that quickly is exhausted. The Lower Back Muscles in a Squat, when performed correctly, are the Stabilizers. (Dr Tom McLaughlin, PhD Exercise Bio-Mechanics, Former Powerlifter).
"When The Back Says NO and the Legs Say Go"
Hollie Evette's (M.S. Exercise Kinesology, former National Powerlifting Champion, Strength Coach) article addressed the issue of the Lower Back Stabilizer Muscles tiring in a Squat, long before the Quads and Glutes were completely overloaded.
While the Quads and Glutes were worked in the Back Squat, they were underloaded; not developed to their full capacity.
Taking The Stabilizers Out of The Movement
The key to maximizing the strength of the Prime Movers in an exercise is to minimize the involvement of the Stabilizers.
The Leg Press does just that, it takes the Lower Back Stabilizers of the equation. It placed the workload on the Quads and Glutes, overload them.
The Conversion Factor
A strong Leg Press does not carry over to a strong Squat That in part due weaker Stabilizer Muscle, required in the Squat.
It is a juggling act for a Squat, Deadlift, etc., that involves utilizing exercises that increasing strength in the Prime Muscles along with exercise that develop strength in the Stabilizer Muscle, as well.
Which bring us back to...
The Single Leg Deadlift is a definitely great Assistance Exercise for Deadlifts; increasing strength in the Stabilizers.
However, to really become a good Deadlifter, you need to perform a Bilateral Deadlift which place more of the workload on the Prime Muscles.
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My opinion:
I don't find @kennycro@@aol.com in disagreement with @Karen Smith and I'll explain my reasoning.
If a big barbell deadlift is your goal, the single-leg deadlift may an excellent assistance exercise for you. But the single-leg deadlift is an excellent exercise choice for just about anyone in any program - whether or not it assists a powerlift doesn't have bearing on its value in other contexts. I do them just to do them, not particularly to help my deadlift. My favorite way to do them is with no weight at all - one leg, drive the other heel backwards, maintain a flat back, and try to touch both hands to the ground. Performed slow and controlled. With a kettlebell, I perform the 1L DL contralaterally (right arm w/ left leg and versa vice), purposefully slowly, squeezing the weight off the ground, locking out the bearing leg completely at the top and trying to spend a little time there, and returning to the ground slowly again, putting the weight down gently. My person favorite variation is to alternate coming up with and without the weight, so: reach down for the bell, stand up with it, pause, lower, then leave the bell on the ground and stand up without it, pause, lower, grab the bell, and so on. The weightless version is great while traveling - you can do them in your room. A good use for those hex dumbbells in the hotel gym is for 1L DL - if it will stand on end, you can use it that way; if you're able to reach almost to the ground, lay the dumbbell down and take it from the ground.
The other side of this is that, if your goal is a big barbell deadlift, as Kenny suggests, you're very unlikely to get there if the main way you practice deadlifting is one leg at a time.
YMMV
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I don't find @kennycro@@aol.com in disagreement with @Karen Smith and I'll explain my reasoning.
If a big barbell deadlift is your goal, the single-leg deadlift may an excellent assistance exercise for you. But the single-leg deadlift is an excellent exercise choice for just about anyone in any program - whether or not it assists a powerlift doesn't have bearing on its value in other contexts. I do them just to do them, not particularly to help my deadlift. My favorite way to do them is with no weight at all - one leg, drive the other heel backwards, maintain a flat back, and try to touch both hands to the ground. Performed slow and controlled. With a kettlebell, I perform the 1L DL contralaterally (right arm w/ left leg and versa vice), purposefully slowly, squeezing the weight off the ground, locking out the bearing leg completely at the top and trying to spend a little time there, and returning to the ground slowly again, putting the weight down gently. My person favorite variation is to alternate coming up with and without the weight, so: reach down for the bell, stand up with it, pause, lower, then leave the bell on the ground and stand up without it, pause, lower, grab the bell, and so on. The weightless version is great while traveling - you can do them in your room. A good use for those hex dumbbells in the hotel gym is for 1L DL - if it will stand on end, you can use it that way; if you're able to reach almost to the ground, lay the dumbbell down and take it from the ground.
The other side of this is that, if your goal is a big barbell deadlift, as Kenny suggests, you're very unlikely to get there if the main way you practice deadlifting is one leg at a time.
YMMV
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