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Kettlebell Resistance/strength training + S&S

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candelas

candelas

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Hello,

To put it shortly, I know, or at least I've read it before many times, that resistance/strength training has to come first to cardio training.

So I guess I have to do it before my S&S practice.

I'm planning to do barbell squats with S&S a couple of days a week.

I've started to do it in this fashion: S&S followed by squats.
So I'm doing it wrongly I guess.

What are your recommendations?

Thanks
 
Goblet squats are part of s&s warm up

S&S isn't cardio. The swings are for power and getups for strength. unless you want huge legs theres no need for additional leg work during s&s practice.

otherwise do them on a different day. not saying you should. its what i would do if i were you.
 
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Definitely agree with @Shawn90 about S&S being Strength/Endurance more so than cardio. S&S is GPP. It's not going to make you better at any one thing but make you a bit better at everything.

As far as Barbell Squats with S&S it's all going to depend on what your goals are with S&S as well as the Squat.

Personally I would have 2 days of Squats (Front or Back) plus assistance work for your abs and low back and then spend another 2-3 maybe even 4 days of S&S.

If you are going to do Barbell Squats and S&S on the same day I would do your Squats first then S&S. Performing Swings and TGUs after some heavy Back or Front Squats has always helped my recovery so I could potentially do it again the next day.
 
As far as training different attributes in a single session, it's generally agreed that the best way to go is to train power/speed right after your warm up (when you fresh and fast), then strength (before you get too fatigued), then endurance. If I was in your shoes, I would warm up, do the swings first, then experiment to see if it feels better doing squats before TGU's, or vice versa. If the swings are too fatiguing, it might be worth it to cut back on the weight or reps on the days you squat. Squats will help develop strength on the days you do them, and you can just focus on speed and power with lighter/fewer swings.
 
I had a teammate that would joking say "The main thing, is to keep the main thing, the main thing".

If you add in the squats before SS, just make sure it doesn't take away your ability to give SS a solid effort.
 
TexasDan said:
If you add in the squats before SS, just make sure it doesn't take away your ability to give SS a solid effort.
Click to expand...

Don't.
The swing is a power move. The swing comes before the getups, because its best to be 'fresh' when working on explosive power.
 
Check out @Anna C 5,3,1 log from a few months back. She incorporated strength training and swings nicely. Not really S&S by the book but still managed to do a great job getting in swings with strength work.
 
Doing both S&S and barbell squats is a solid idea. They go well together.

I would do swings first, squats second and get-ups last. If you have more specific priorities the order may change or it may be best to do them on separate days.
 
Hello,

@candelas
S&S is a GPP program, so a balanced mix between strength and cardio.

Gobblet squat are part of the warm up.

The program makes you practice your grind (get up, for strength) after the ballistic (swing, for "cardio" and explosive strength). So following this principle, barbell squat "should" be done after the swing if improving the barbell is your priority over the GU.

Otherwise, S&S on alternate days with a squat program of your choice can also be a very solid option.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Thanks everyone.

Sorry for calling S&S cardio.
It's more Strength/Endurance or a balanced mix between strength and cardio as some of you have pointed out.
I think I read Pavel saying that it was designed in a similar manner as the A+A training, at least the swing part. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway I don't necessarily need to do squats on the same day as my S&S practice. I'm just looking for a suitable training program of 4 days a week.

What can I add to my S&S days?
If nothing, OK, no problem
If anything, what is it better or more suitable?

My template would be as follows:

Monday S&S + ? *(my option: barbell Squats and Dips)
Wednesday M. Press, Chin-ups or Pull-ups, Cleans.
Friday S&S + ? *(barbell Squats)
Saturday Push-ups, Rows, snatch practice (A+A style).

For Mid-Section work: bridges and leg raises. No fixed day, when possible.

I want to keep it simple but at the same time trying to work upper, lower body and mid section.
I want to squat two days a week because I have skinny legs.

Please be welcome to modify my template.

Thanks in advance.
 
I think your plan in general looks very good. I'd do a heavy monday and a light friday with the barbell squats. Your mid-section work selection is really nice as well. I'd do them last on a lighter day, for example on Friday.
 
candelas said:
Not yet, I was doing it with a 28kg before I got injured. Now I have regressed to 24kg including some TGU with 28kg.






Honestly, if you have not reached simple yet, then focus om S&S ONLY. No additional fluff. Own, and I really mean own simple any day, any time. After that you might do other stuff.
You could include goblet squats with your swing weight into your warm up @3x5 and some pushups. Aside from that optionally pullups but that is all that I would do.
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@Marc

I see your point but perhaps the title of my post is confusing.
I'm using S&S as part of my training not as the goal of it (not yet).
I know that doing S&S five days a week would be great. But I'm going to try this kind of overall training to see how it goes, unless you guys convince me otherwise.

Thanks
 
@candelas
What is your goal ?
What is your current level at squats?

It seems that you want to prioritize squats. So I would first make a program around those and add up to 2 days of S&S.
I actually started S&S in this manner. My program was barbell centered, the big lifts 3 times a week, and I added S&S twice a week, mainly because I like swings. I used the getup to reinforce the shoulder packing that has long been an issue of mine. I stayed light for a long time (16 then 24 for months before introducing the 32 for swings).

It worked well, but of course, progress were slow on S&S.
 
@Marc I know you are right about doing S&S 4-6x/week. What can I say?
I have to choose between that and some other template.
I need to set a plan and stick to it.
And I know that S&S would be perfect: done 4/6 times per week, simple and efficient.

But honestly I don't want to leave aside presses, cleans and snatches.
I want to do some calisthenic as well: chin-ups/pull-ups, push-ups, dips, leg raises and bridges.
And I want to work my legs with barbell squats and bodyweight walking lunges, (and occasionally some pistols GTG style)

So my training would include:
Kettlebell (S&S, presses, cleans and snatches)
Bodyweight (chin-ups/pull-ups, push-ups, dips, walking lunges, *pistols leg raises and bridges)
Barbell (squats)

@jef
My goal? Overall fitness. It should be overall health.
My current level at squats? I used to do 3 x 5 with 80 kg but I started practicing with kettlebells and stopped doing barbell squats. So let's say I'm starting again.
I'm working on the hypertrophy range 3-4 x 10 with 50/60 kg.

The big lifts 3 times a week + S&S twice a week.
By the big lifts you mean?
Deadlift, Squat, Row, Military press and Bench press?

It sounds good. I think it also suit my goals. What are my goals? That question again.

Well, I need to think about it.
I'm a skinny guy (1.75 m 62 kg) already in my mid forties. So I should take it easy. My goal should be overall health.
And for that, @Marc, S&S 4-6 times per week would be great.
@jef The big lifts 3 times a week + S&S twice a week would be great as well, taking it easy with the lifts I guess.
 
candelas said:
@Marc I know you are right about doing S&S 4-6x/week. What can I say?
I have to choose between that and some other template.
I need to set a plan and stick to it.
And I know that S&S would be perfect: done 4/6 times per week, simple and efficient.

But honestly I don't want to leave aside presses, cleans and snatches.
I want to do some calisthenic as well: chin-ups/pull-ups, push-ups, dips, leg raises and bridges.
And I want to work my legs with barbell squats and bodyweight walking lunges, (and occasionally some pistols GTG style)

So my training would include:
Kettlebell (S&S, presses, cleans and snatches)
Bodyweight (chin-ups/pull-ups, push-ups, dips, walking lunges, *pistols leg raises and bridges)
Barbell (squats)

@jef
My goal? Overall fitness. It should be overall health.
My current level at squats? I used to do 3 x 5 with 80 kg but I started practicing with kettlebells and stopped doing barbell squats. So let's say I'm starting again.
I'm working on the hypertrophy range 3-4 x 10 with 50/60 kg.

The big lifts 3 times a week + S&S twice a week.
By the big lifts you mean?
Deadlift, Squat, Row, Military press and Bench press?

It sounds good. I think it also suit my goals. What are my goals? That question again.

Well, I need to think about it.
I'm a skinny guy (1.75 m 62 kg) already in my mid forties. So I should take it easy. My goal should be overall health.
And for that, @Marc, S&S 4-6 times per week would be great.
@jef The big lifts 3 times a week + S&S twice a week would be great as well, taking it easy with the lifts I guess.
Click to expand...
I'll give you pull-ups, but the TGU is a "semi-isometric" press, and when you go heavy it is as good or better than lunges or specific leg work.

You could always do (with S&S being the focus):
- a few rounds of heavy cleans as a warmup
- "Simply Sinister" variation occasionally, which has options to incorporate C&P or snatch.
- Snatch for 50-100 reps instead of swings occasionally

S&S delivers as GPP, which for a novice will get you "stronger than most people" and for a trained person, maintain GPP. The beauty of it is it can be full-scale (4-6 days a week) or as little as 2 days a week around other programs.
 
@candelas don't get me wrong: I do not want to be some kind of training nazi. Of course you can also use an alternative template.
But:
-for legs you can do 3x5 goblet squats with your swing weight in the warm up. Done every time it will lend to some decent "colareral" leg work
- including pull ups is actually a good idea: I would recommend the fighter pullup plan done 3x/week
-you could also include pushups into your war up: 3x5-10. As with goblet squats the reps will add up
-you can do bridges/l-sits as part of your mobility work

That way you are covered all over!
 
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